Yeasties and weak/no fermentation

[Poincare]

Hello.

I read the sticky at the top of the forum page but it contains extremely contradictory advise. Several posts say fermentation needs to start BEFORE 12 hours (that is, there should be visible sighs!) while several other posts says no, no, WAIT 72 HOURS. WTF?! As a n00b, I am not sure which to believe...

Hence, my dilemma. I made a lager kit (malt extract?) yesterday and was very careful about cleaning and sanitizing with One Step. Mixed the extract and sugar and brought it down to 24C. Instructions say optimal temperature range is 21 - 27C. Pitched the yeast at 24C and it has remained at 23 - 24C. The wort has remained in the primary for 18 hours and there are no sighs of fermenting at all -- no bubbles coming thru the airlock; no condensation on the underside of the lid; no gaseous smell in (I did not open the lid) or around the primary.

It has been 18 hours and I'm not sure what to do. Again, I'm not sure which conflicting advise in the sticky to believe: no activity until 72 hours is OK? or no activity after 12 hours is NOT OK?!

If after 72 hours there is no change in hydometer readings, how do I add more yeast? Just open the fermentor and just dump a sachet of dry yeast over the top of the wort (do I stir?) and close lid? How will I know the original yeast are not dormant or just being lazy?? Will the new yeast eat the old/original yeast? Do I need more sugars for the new yeast?

Oh yeah, the expiration date was Sept 20, 2009.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Ballistic]

Don't pitch any new yeast yet, but when you do your next brew, wake the yeast by hydrating it in warm water first for 15 mins.

 

[Aleforge]

I would wait a few days for sure, if no activity is seen go ahead and re-pitch some yeast. Just rehydrate, or use a smack pack / vail whatever and dump it in the air lock hole. You can give the vessel a swirl and let her go. No the new yeast won't eat the old yeast, and you can't over pitch so don't worry about it.

I wouldn't also worry about taking any Hydrometer readings until a few weeks go by, then take one every other day a few times to make sure its done.

 

[joe6pack]

Ideally it should start in 12-18 hours, but if it doesn't... no big deal. And just because you don't see any bubbles, etc., that doesn't mean fermentation hasn't started.

 

[john from dc]

i haven't read through the stickies in awhile, but 72 hours with no signs of activity (including no krausen) is when it's time to start thinking about repitching.

lots of beers take longer than 12 hours to start and turn out great!

 

[Revvy]

Hello.

I read the sticky at the top of the forum page but it contains extremely contradictory advise. Several posts say fermentation needs to start BEFORE 12 hours (that is, there should be visible sighs!) while several other posts says no, no, WAIT 72 HOURS. WTF?! As a n00b, I am not sure which to believe...

Hence, my dilemma. I made a lager kit (malt extract?) yesterday and was very careful about cleaning and sanitizing with One Step. Mixed the extract and sugar and brought it down to 24C. Instructions say optimal temperature range is 21 - 27C. Pitched the yeast at 24C and it has remained at 23 - 24C. The wort has remained in the primary for 18 hours and there are no sighs of fermenting at all -- no bubbles coming thru the airlock; no condensation on the underside of the lid; no gaseous smell in (I did not open the lid) or around the primary.

It has been 18 hours and I'm not sure what to do. Again, I'm not sure which conflicting advise in the sticky to believe: no activity until 72 hours is OK? or no activity after 12 hours is NOT OK?!

If after 72 hours there is no change in hydometer readings, how do I add more yeast? Just open the fermentor and just dump a sachet of dry yeast over the top of the wort (do I stir?) and close lid? How will I know the original yeast are not dormant or just being lazy?? Will the new yeast eat the old/original yeast? Do I need more sugars for the new yeast?

Thanks for any help!

Two things come into play here...How do you define no fermentation happenning? If you are in a bucket and going by airlock activity then you are using a faulty indicator of it...It's NOT a fermentation gauge, airlock bubbling means absolutely nothing, it's just a pressure release valve, something to keep from blowing the lid of the fermentor...

If you are in a carboy then you MAY see a krausen OR you MAY have had a rapid fermentation and the Krauzen fell while you were asleep...

GENERALLY speaking the 72 hour rule of thumb serves several purposes...it takes into account LAG TIME that some yeast DO Need before they start.

It takes into consideration the fact that NO TWO FERMENTATIONS ARE EVER THE SAME....Since we're dealing with living micro-organisms it's important to note this fact....and because that one must learn to realize this, and trust that in most normal circumstances the yeasts ARE FINE, they've been doing it for several thousands of years, and THEY are the experts...

A normal healthy yeast, in a sanitary environment, brewing a normal gravity beer between 60 and 70 degrees (for ale, less for lager) WILL 99% of the time FERMENT....it's not like the old days when yeast came in one strain, in an ugly dried out cake....A lot of the mentions in books and things about stuck fermentations were from back in the bad old days....and someone reads something about it, and usually uses airlock activity as an indication and panics and thinks their fermentation is stuck...and the meme virus continues.

Stuck fermentations do happen (I'm dealing with one now), but they are not as common as the threads here indicate. They are the result of things like high grav worts, temp fluctuations , or less than healthy yeasts or under pitching.)

What we recommend is that if you are nervous, to wait 72 hours and take a hydro reading....99.9% of the people who start these threads and do that, come back and say... "Oh yeah I panicked for nothing, the beer is fermenting, hehehe."

Like this from today.....

Rev.
Wanted to let you know that everything is o.k. Checked on the primary this morn. There is still no bubbler activity, but when putting my nose to the bucket, there is that distinct aroma. I opened the lid and saw A LOT OF KRAUSEN. So much that I had to resist the temptation to make a beard and mustache out of it. hahahahaha. I'm going to give it 10 days until I check S.G. again.
Thanks

If you have no drop in gravity points, then you pitch a clean dry yeast into the fermentor...just sprinkle it on top, or rehydrate....then you close up and walk away...

Take a read of this for more info...http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Think_evaluation_before_action/

A lot of us pitch, walk away from the fermentor and return in a month to bottle trusting that all is well....because 99% of the time it is.