Yeast washing question

[rhys333]

A few weeks ago I tried washing yeast from the primary, as per the common method that gives you 3 or 4 mason jars worth of yeast from a 5 gal batch. I was overly cautious about trub inclusion, so lost a lot of good yeast in the process. As a result I have 4 jars with 1/8 inch layer in the bottom. I decided to combine these into one jar so I'll have enough yeast for one starter next brew day. Basically, I poured off 3/4 of the liquid in each jar, shook the remainder to resuspend yeast, combined all 4 into one of the jars, capped and stuck it back in the fridge. It'll be another couple weeks before I use it.

Am I okay doing this, or just asking for trouble from increased risk of infection? I was careful to keep the caps clean, but I didn't resanitize them.

 

[rodwha]

It seems to me as though it's quite a bit of yeast to have at one time. I'd think it likely you' be way over pitching.

Having them in several jars as you had allows you to keep more on hand, and were you to have problems, could just make a starter and pitch.

Instead of the hassles of washing yeast it was recommended to instead just make a larger starter and save the remainder. Cleaner, easier, etc.

 

[flars]

You are good. There may be something to saving the yeast in two 8 ounce jars in case one gets infected. Not to likely one will be infected and not two if you were lax on sanitizing.
I save yeast in one quart mason jar since it will be used again within a few weeks. One day my wife did comment about the number of jars with yeast in the frig.
She bought me a frig for the brew room.
My technique is to leave about 8 ounces of beer in the fermentor. Swirl it up. Lay the carboy on its side with the bottom raised. I pour off one quart when the first sign of clearing is at the top. Gives me about 250 ml of clean yeast.

You are rinsing. Washing involves the use of acid. Yes, the stickie should be edited.

 

[rhys333]

It seems to me as though it's quite a bit of yeast to have at one time. I'd think it likely you' be way over pitching.

Having them in several jars as you had allows you to keep more on hand, and were you to have problems, could just make a starter and pitch.

Instead of the hassles of washing yeast it was recommended to instead just make a larger starter and save the remainder. Cleaner, easier, etc.

I has to combine the jars though because i only had a thin film in the bottom of each. I'm estimating i'll have 1/4 inch or so in the bottom of pint jar after combining. It seems like such a small amount... Would this be overpitching? I really have no clue how i would go about estimating cell count... Sometimes i can't count higher than 11 so 200 billion is off the cards! Is there a way i can easily estimate?

 

[rhys333]

My technique is to leave about 8 ounces of beer in the fermentor. Swirl it up. Lay the carboy on its side with the bottom raised. I pour off one quart when the first sign of clearing is at the top. Gives me about 250 ml of clean yeast.

Do you rinse it a second time with water and separate into two smaller jars?

 

[flars]

No, I use the beer that was left in the fermentor as a better preservative than water. Decant when the yeast layer has formed. Swirl up the remainder and pour into one jar.

 

[rodwha]

That doesn't sound like too much.

As I recall when I washed yeast that I got maybe about that much in each jar.

 

[flars]

I overlooked the second part of your post. You are not overpitching. The amount of yeast you were able to harvest is on the very low side.
Think of making a yeast starter. A pack of Wyeast is about 100ml and has 100 billion cells when it is fresh. A starter for a 1.060 beer would need to double that amount to 200ml with a 1 liter starter.
Now think of making a 5 gallon starter which basically your beer was. I estimate low. One billion cells per milliliter.
Luckily mason jars have both ounce and ml markings. Rough but close enough to tell you if a starter is a good idea. When I get 250 ml of clean yeast I call it good. Could get more, but then I would just have to save more than I need.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Here is the summary of my research on saving yeast slury:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html

and more:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

 

[rhys333]

Here is the summary of my research on saving yeast slury:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html

and more:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

Also, thanks for the interesting read woodlandbrew. I'm still wrapping my head around the collecting, cell counting, and yeast build-up, and will return to this once I'm comfortable with the first steps

 

[rhys333]

Dang, it dumped my long reply. I'll try reposting. Thanks all for the advice. I'm a bit slow picking this up. Flars- a lot of tutorials show 500ml jars with about 50ml compacted yeast in the bottom. Using your estimates, am I right that this would provide approx 50 billion cells, requiring a 1L starter? Are you able to collect 250 ml of compacted yeast and not bother with a starter?

 

[rhys333]

As reference, this is one of the vids I've been watching:
Yeast Harvesting and Pale Ales!: http://youtu.be/9oKcjx0yqUQ
I'm guessing at 6:05 those are 500ml jars that may yield 50-100 ml compacted yeast after settling.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Using your estimates, am I right that this would provide approx 50 billion cells, requiring a 1L starter?

That sounds about right. It should yeild about 150 billion cells assuming you are using 100g of DME in the litter.

Are you able to collect 250 ml of compacted yeast and not bother with a starter?

I've had good results using that method.

Also, instead of stepping up the yeast you can step down the beer. Then, after a couple of days add the remaining wort or extract.

 

[rodwha]

"Also, instead of stepping up the yeast you can step down the beer. Then, after a couple of days add the remaining wort or extract."

That's very interesting! I've not heard of it.

 

[rhys333]

That sounds about right. It should yeild about 150 billion cells assuming you are using 100g of DME in the litter.

I've had good results using that method.

Also, instead of stepping up the yeast you can step down the beer. Then, after a couple of days add the remaining wort or extract.

Awesome, thanks for the help. Now onto culturing up some commercial beer yeast. Might as well run before I can walk!