Yeast Washing Illustrated

[dordelli]

So I'm attempting my first yeast washing and here is how mine looks after settling for about 1/2 hr. Which part am I trying to capture, the level at roughly 2.7L to 3.1L?

 

[eelgerg]

I have a yeast cake from a batch that I racked yesterday. I immediately put the fermenter in the ferm chamber and kept it going at 5 deg C. I am boiling water right now and will wash the yeast tomorrow. Is that too long to leave a yeast cake? Or will it be OK because there is still some wort with it? (Drained wort to the yeast cake level so there's not much).

 

[eelgerg]

Ps it will be a total of about 48 hours refrigerated.........if that helps.

 

[eelgerg]

And, is the aim to try to generate about a litre of yeast slurry per 5 Gal batch yeast cake? Or four pint jars? I actually have a split 10 gal (5+5) batch where I used S-04 and Nottingham. I figured I'll have at least 60 more gallons (6 mot split 10 gal batches) of ale brewed this year, and I'd like to try this split yeast on each to learn more about the differences between these yeasts.

 

[mtnagel]

So I'm attempting my first yeast washing and here is how mine looks after settling for about 1/2 hr. Which part am I trying to capture, the level at roughly 2.7L to 3.1L?

It's kind of hard to tell from that picture, but that looks like pretty clean yeast slurry as it is.

When you initially start letting it settle, in a few minutes, you should see the heaviest stuff settle out and you don't want that stuff. But you want all the stuff above it. If you let it settle 30 mins and only take the top, almost clear part in your picture (2.7-3.1), then you will be leaving behind a ton of yeast and you will be self selecting only the least flocculant yeast, which isn't want you want. Hope that helps.

I have a yeast cake from a batch that I racked yesterday. I immediately put the fermenter in the ferm chamber and kept it going at 5 deg C. I am boiling water right now and will wash the yeast tomorrow. Is that too long to leave a yeast cake? Or will it be OK because there is still some wort with it? (Drained wort to the yeast cake level so there's not much).

Yes, that will be fine.

And, is the aim to try to generate about a litre of yeast slurry per 5 Gal batch yeast cake? Or four pint jars? I actually have a split 10 gal (5+5) batch where I used S-04 and Nottingham. I figured I'll have at least 60 more gallons (6 mot split 10 gal batches) of ale brewed this year, and I'd like to try this split yeast on each to learn more about the differences between these yeasts.

You end up with what you end up with. It depends on how efficient you are and how clean you want it to be.

 

[dordelli]

It's kind of hard to tell from that picture, but that looks like pretty clean yeast slurry as it is.

When you initially start letting it settle, in a few minutes, you should see the heaviest stuff settle out and you don't want that stuff. But you want all the stuff above it. If you let it settle 30 mins and only take the top, almost clear part in your picture (2.7-3.1), then you will be leaving behind a ton of yeast and you will be self selecting only the least flocculant yeast, which isn't want you want. Hope that helps.

Thanks for your help, after letting it settle about an hour and looking very closely at the bottom, I could see a little trub. Here is what I ended up collecting, first pour is the jar on the left and last on the right. I primarily do 10-15 gallon batches and I know starters are usually always recommended, but won't the jar on the far right have significantly more yeast cells by maybe 3x?

 

[mtnagel]

Yes, those look great and yes the one on the right looks to have a lot more yeast. I'd still do a starter unless you are planning on using it in a couple weeks.

 

[eelgerg]

Thanks mtnangel!

 

[bristela]

Thanks for your help, after letting it settle about an hour and looking very closely at the bottom, I could see a little trub. Here is what I ended up collecting, first pour is the jar on the left and last on the right. I primarily do 10-15 gallon batches and I know starters are usually always recommended, but won't the jar on the far right have significantly more yeast cells by maybe 3x?

Hiya

The jar on the right does have ~3x the material of others to the left. What you can't tell from just looking at it though is how many viable cells are in there.

In a microbiology lab you'd talk about CFUs (colony forming units). The only way to determine that is to plate them out and see though. If you are curious (and can't be bothered with plating yeast out for CFU calculations) you could set up two identical starter cultures with your different jars and see which is quicker getting to mid-log phase (in my kitchen this means kreusen at its highest point).

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[eelgerg]

If you have the full load of trub in the fermenter because there is no trub filter and because I didn't whirlpool, will it be harder to separate the yeast?
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1422589788.115457.jpg

 

[mtnagel]

Nope, you'll be fine. The trub will settle faster than the yeast.

 

[Rock_Toy]

So I attempted to do this for the first time yesterday and think that I may have missed the mark. Trying to harvest a Trappist Yeast out of a Dark Trappist IPA.

Boiled the jars and then poured the warmish boiled water into the cake/trub in the plastic bucket after racking out the beer. Swirled for a few minutes and let it sit for maybe ten minutes. Then poured off into 4 jars. Let sit for an hour or so and then poured off the wort from 2 of the jars into a smaller jar.

Don't appear to have done this correctly. Check out the pics. The first is the carboy with the racked beer the next morning. Then 2 of the jars this morning with the trub/wort/yeast. And finally the smallish jar that I poured off the wort and refrigerated overnight. Looks to me like I am getting nothing but wort and trub. Thoughts?

And if I did not get the yeast, do you think I can still harvest it from the carboy after I transfer the beer to the bottling bucket?

 

[mtnagel]

You probably have yeast, but you don't have very much.

1 hour is probably too long to wait. Everything shouldn't settle before pouring off the small jars. If you wait too long, most of the yeast will settle to the bottom layer, which you are discarding. There were still be some yeast in suspension in the top layer after an hour, but it will be the least flocculant, which you don't only the least flocculant. You want a mix of the yeast. When you pour, you want the top layer to still be milky color, not clear. If it's clear, you have barely any yeast in there. Hope that helps.

 

[Rock_Toy]

You probably have yeast, but you don't have very much.

1 hour is probably too long to wait. Everything shouldn't settle before pouring off the small jars. If you wait too long, most of the yeast will settle to the bottom layer, which you are discarding. There were still be some yeast in suspension in the top layer after an hour, but it will be the least flocculant, which you don't only the least flocculant. You want a mix of the yeast. When you pour, you want the top layer to still be milky color, not clear. If it's clear, you have barely any yeast in there. Hope that helps.

It does. Do you think I would be best served by trying to harvest out of my secondary at this point? Just want to be able to harvest enough for one 5 gallon batch, when I'll try again

 

[Komocabo]

I have heard you should not harvest from secondary. Not sure if that is fact, but it has been said that the yeast in the primary is" better" than the yeast from primary

 

[eelgerg]

Just an update that washing my trubby wort did work after all. Large mason jar settled well after an hour, with yeast still in suspension, and then decanting into pint jars resulted in about 4 x 3/4 full jars of what looked like pretty good yeast solution.

Next question:

How do I tell how much yeast solution (density of yeast cells per ml?) I have in each jar? Ie how do I know how much to use to make a starter next time I wanna use these?

 

[bristela]

I have heard you should not harvest from secondary. Not sure if that is fact, but it has been said that the yeast in the primary is" better" than the yeast from primary

You can harvest from the secondary, I have done it certainly. However, the yeast were definitely not as "happy". When I subsequently used them for a starter culture for my next brew they took a lot longer to form kreusen.

Personally, I do two sedimentation steps. Each is ~20 minutes. I find this is about right for separating out the trub from the active yeast cells. I also think that an hour is too long, everything will have settled in that time which isn't really the point.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

 

[IslandLizard]

I have heard you should not harvest from secondary. Not sure if that is fact, but it has been said that the yeast in the primary is" better" than the yeast from primary

You're right, the main reason is that in the secondary you're selecting for the yeast that is less flocculent. The more flocculent population lies on the bottom of the primary. You actually want both.

 

[BrewHogDeluxe]

I used this process for my first yeast wash 3 weeks ago out of an October Fest that I had brewed, washing S-04. Last night I brewed a pretty heavy IPA with 17.5 pounds of grains and of course a bunch of hops :-D woke up this morning and the wort is boiling as to be expected by any store bought yeast. I did do a starter and added a bubbler overnight. Great post, thank you.

 

[beardown2489]

Maybe I should have posted my question here. But anyway,

Here's the link

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=515262

 

[actionjackson905]

Ok. So I attempted to give this a shot after a bit of reading (this post and others, plus a few videos) using a bit of my own innovation and know how. I ended up with 3L of solution, cold crashed the 3 jars and after pouring off the clear beer so that I had an estimated 50/50 solution/yeast ratio and ended up with about 300 ml after mixing all 3 parts together. I then put the yeast into 3 vials, thinking that I should end up with the same amount of yeast as the store bought versions. Problem I have is I ended up with approx 6 vials worth, even though I only had 3. So I put the remainder in a sanitized growler. Questions I have:

1. Is the amount of yeast I have due to the yeast multiplying, and does this seem to be a normal volume?
2 can I leave the yeast in the bottle with that amount of headspace?

FYI, my plan is to use a starter before using any of this reclaimed yeast.

View attachment 1423237474558.jpg

 

[stever1000]

I did this a bit differently as I was doing 2 batches in one day. I poured the yeast cake directly into 2 1-quart Mason jars and put them in the fridge, and pitched the rest of the yeast cake with my first batch.

That was last week, and it has settled in the fridge, with a large layer of beer on the top, and the rest of the stuff below. I can't really see the yeast, but I assume once it is washed (thereby diluting it from the trub) it will be easier to see and separate?

Is it okay to decant the beer, pour boiled and cooled water into the jars, and let the yeast slurry separate again, then transfer to pint sized jars? Or do I risk contamination by opening the jars and pouring the water in? The jars were pre sterilized before I originally poured in the yeast cake.

I've read the process but I'm still a bit unsure, and I don't want to make any mistakes

 

[mtnagel]

Sure that should work. But if you have a large beer layer over the yeast cake in the jars, after washing, you aren't going to end up with much yeast as you lose a lot by washing.

 

[stever1000]

Sure that should work. But if you have a large beer layer over the yeast cake in the jars, after washing, you aren't going to end up with much yeast as you lose a lot by washing.

Sorry I meant I would decant the beer so I would just be left with the yeast cake sludge in the quart jars, then continue as the directions say but add the water to the quart jars, then into pint jars.

 

[mtnagel]

Right, I understood that. I just meant that if you had a small portion of yeast cake at the bottom, after you go through the washing part, you will only end up with a small portion of yeast. It was just a heads up.

 

[drinkindinkins]

Sorry if has already been answered but does headspace in the jars matter? I only have a couple of those smaller mason jars and a few med sized. If I used the medium sized it would be about half full. Would this be a problem?

 

[stever1000]

Right, I understood that. I just meant that if you had a small portion of yeast cake at the bottom, after you go through the washing part, you will only end up with a small portion of yeast. It was just a heads up.

So you mean instead of having 1 quart of yeast slurry, I have 0.5 quart of yeast slurry and 0.5 quart of beer?
Got it now, thanks

 

[brewfarmDan]

Thanks Bernie. Long thread so I hope you are still there. I have ordered and should have a SS Conical Fermenter with a bottom drain for draining off some yeast. How would you change your method for this?

 

[bd2xu]

Sorry if already covered here, but if in a hurry and don't have time to boil water for washing, anyone worried about using bottled spring water or bottled purified water? I know bottled distilled water should be fine, pretty sure bottled purified water would be safe too, but not sure on bottled spring water...

The vessels would be sanitized in star san

 

[actionjackson905]

Sorry if already covered here, but if in a hurry and don't have time to boil water for washing, anyone worried about using bottled spring water or bottled purified water? I know bottled distilled water should be fine, pretty sure bottled purified water would be safe too, but not sure on bottled spring water...

The vessels would be sanitized in star san

Not sure about the distilled, I would not trust the spring water. I'm pretty sure the boiling process is to sanitize the water as well the vessels used.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Never use bottled water without boiling it.

 

[bd2xu]

Never use bottled water without boiling it.

I think bottled distilled and purified would be ok. Are you basing your comment on experience? I remember now I've topped off batches with spring water, when they came up a little short and high on gravity, and that hasn't been a problem.

 

[actionjackson905]

I think bottled distilled and purified would be ok. Are you basing your comment on experience? I remember now I've topped off batches with spring water, when they came up a little short and high on gravity, and that hasn't been a problem.

I would think using bottled spring water or distilled water for wort top up would be fine, but for yeast washing I'm leaning toward boiled sanitized water. Everything I have read about yeast washing mentions boiling your water and vessels before washing. Just my two cents.

 

[joshesmusica]

random question about this method, going all the way back to the original post:
if i were to just go with two jars instead of four, would I still need a starter? i don't have the equipment or really the desire to mess with starters. i know i could get many more generations out of yeast going with four and doing a starter, but i also don't have the space to be multiplying yeast like that after every brew anyways. i'm pretty satisfied if i can get two extra brew out of one generation of yeast.

 

[actionjackson905]

random question about this method, going all the way back to the original post:
if i were to just go with two jars instead of four, would I still need a starter? i don't have the equipment or really the desire to mess with starters. i know i could get many more generations out of yeast going with four and doing a starter, but i also don't have the space to be multiplying yeast like that after every brew anyways. i'm pretty satisfied if i can get two extra brew out of one generation of yeast.

I think i would stick with the 4L to be sure you get proper separation of trub from yeast. But you don't really need to use a starter once you get the separation, I did just to make sure the yeast was active, sort of put my mind at ease that I wasn't dumping dead yeast into a batch. But doing a starter isn't that difficult. All you really need is a flask, DME, sanitized water, yeast and a few days prior to brewing.

 

[actionjackson905]

Some good info here:

Watch "MAKING A YEAST STARTER" on YouTube
MAKING A YEAST STARTER: http://youtu.be/kEQBPeHfXD0

 

[joshesmusica]

I think i would stick with the 4L to be sure you get proper separation of trub from yeast. But you don't really need to use a starter once you get the separation, I did just to make sure the yeast was active, sort of put my mind at ease that I wasn't dumping dead yeast into a batch. But doing a starter isn't that difficult. All you really need is a flask, DME, sanitized water, yeast and a few days prior to brewing.

well i only end up with about 2L of yeast/trub from my 19L batches. Once I get these separated and decanted, I end up with about 1L or so of good yeast. I separate these into 2 mason jars, instead of 4 mason jars. Which should technically mean that I have twice as much in each jar right?

I also use this method instead of making a starter:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2012/12/no-more-wasteful-yeast-starters.html

so i'm wondering, with all that information combined, am I still going to be ending up with sufficient amount of viable yeast?

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Ive washed 3 batches recently using the advice from the OP page 1. The inly thing I do is add a pinch of DAP to the wash. Ive read all the comments throughout this thread, and I guess, if I could share anything, jus dont overcomplicate this. If you want to, jus follow the OPs directions and find ways to make it easy work for you. Ive used washed yeast by this method at least a dozen times. Ive even used 1 year old Kölsch yeast. I always make 1 or 2 L starters. Works great!! And then I rewash it again. Prost!

 

[actionjackson905]

Ive washed 3 batches recently using the advice from the OP page 1. The inly thing I do is add a pinch of DAP to the wash. Ive read all the comments throughout this thread, and I guess, if I could share anything, jus dont overcomplicate this. If you want to, jus follow the OPs directions and find ways to make it easy work for you. Ive used washed yeast by this method at least a dozen times. Ive even used 1 year old Kölsch yeast. I always make 1 or 2 L starters. Works great!! And then I rewash it again. Prost!

Hitting the "Like" button. Well stated.

 

[SeraW]

Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster. Usually I can find answers to just about any question by reading through an existing thread, so I don't post much and do a LOT of reading.

That said, I have a few batches under my belt including one where I washed (a Saison). Currently I'm in the planning stages of a Chocolate Stout (for celebrating my Associate's Degree in June), and I was planning on doing a Cacao (in vodka solution) addition after the kräusen falls.

Any problems with washing the yeast on this particular beer? I'm hoping the cacao nibs will sink in with the trub and will be washed with it. Does anyone know for sure?

I don't currently secondary because I make 2.5 gal batches in a 3 gal Better Bottle, and I haven't been able to find a vessel that would work as a secondary that doesn't have way too much head space. So the cacao will go into primary (a method seen in several recipes) after main fermentation.

Thanks in advance, loved this thread and the illustrations!