Yeast starter or no yeast starter

[lambo1274]

Received a kit order from AHS today. I was lead to believe on a mother thread that I started that I would need a yeast starter for liquid yeast. I read through the notes on the test tube and this is what they included (this EXACTLY what it says on the label

"If OG is over 1.070, if the yeast is past it's 'best before' date or if a faster start is desired, a 1-2 pint activator (yeast starter) can be made."

According to the instructions included, the original specific gravity should be about 1.056. This doesn't suggest to me that I absolutely need to make a starter. Any thoughts on which road I should take?

 

[KepowOb]

You can pitch the vial and make beer. It'll work. But why not make a starter? You'll ensure a proper pitching rate, which is one of the most common tips given here when it comes to making better quality brews.

Either way, make sure you aerate properly as well .

 

[devils4ever]

In my experience, a yeast starter helps, but is not absolutely needed. If I have the time, I make a starter. If not, I skip it unless the yeast is old.

 

[BigFloyd]

Well, that vial had about 100 billion yeast cells when it was packaged at the factory in San Diego. It got shipped to Austin, TX, probably in a non-refrigerated UPS truck. It sat a bit in their fridge waiting for you to order it, then back on the UPS truck to come to your door. If that took a mere month, not even considering the higher temps the vial may have been exposed to, you're down to 79 billion live cells (which is pretty darn optimistic).

Now, let's say that your target pitch rate is a conservative 0.75 (based on million cells/ml/degree plato). That batch should get a dose of 216 billion cells (using Braukaiser's calculator at Brewer's Friend). Your vial contains about 1/3 the number of cells that you ought to be using. That's a pretty serious under-pitch.

If you want a good, reliable fermentation, do a starter. A 2 liter starter with occasional shake or a 1 liter stirplate starter will do the trick.

 

[midfielder5]

If you keep reading the white labs label instructions, they want you to pitch it warm (70-75*), then when fermentation starts (ie it is unstated- the yeast need to have increased their cell count enough), drop the temperature to fermentation temps which is about 5-10* less for a Cal ale. So WL is asking you to using your fermenter as a starter vehicle; which is why you are also told here on HBT to RDWHAHB bc could take 72 hours to see visible signs of fermentation.

So I'd rather make a starter to: 1) avoid off flavors from high pitch temps; 2) ensure viability (yeast could be DOA); 3) get the main fermentation going without the lag.

good luck with what you choose.
cheers!

 

[tooldudetool]

Wow, midfielder that is the best explanation I've seen! This issue has always bugged me too, especially considering Jamil came up with the Mr. Malty pitching rate calculator and then wrote a book with Chris White about yeast. For a 1.070 brew Mr Malty says 2.6 tubes! I've never heard any explanation about the discrepancy, and I could never figure out why White Labs would put something deceptive on their packaging. I also wondered why they suggested pitching so warm... thank you for piecing that together for me!

 

[midfielder5]

Wow, midfielder that is the best explanation I've seen! This issue has always bugged me too, especially considering Jamil came up with the Mr. Malty pitching rate calculator and then wrote a book with Chris White about yeast. For a 1.070 brew Mr Malty says 2.6 tubes! I've never heard any explanation about the discrepancy, and I could never figure out why White Labs would put something deceptive on their packaging. I also wondered why they suggested pitching so warm... thank you for piecing that together for me!

You are welcome.
BigFloyd's post above mine has sound additional analysis & the yeast count numbers (which line up with Mr Malty too).

 

[lambo1274]

Thanks for all the info guys. Some of its a little over my head but I like reading and learning so i don't think it's anything that I will be clueless about forever. I don't have a stir plate so a 2 liter starter it is. Guess I'll head to my LHBS to get the supplies.

 

[DoWBrewer]

Two things to consider:
1. Start harvesting your yeast and you will buy a lot less yeast. There are lots of threads about how to do it.
2. If you do all-grain (or even extract), add some extra two-row and water to your batch. Collect the wort in mason jars at boiling temps (for easy sanitation) and store them in your fridge for starters.

 

[BigFloyd]

Two things to consider:
1. Start harvesting your yeast and you will buy a lot less yeast. There are lots of threads about how to do it.

+1.

2. If you do all-grain (or even extract), add some extra two-row and water to your batch. Collect the wort in mason jars at boiling temps (for easy sanitation) and store them in your fridge for starters.

One note on this. For many brews, the gravity of that batch wort is going to be higher than what you want for starter wort. You want starter wort to be between 1.030 and 1.040. You may have to dilute it some (with boiled/cooled water) to get to the appropriate gravity.

IMO, pitching warm to try to compensate for a lower-than-adequate cell count is a BAD IDEA which increases the risk of off-flavors. There are still kit instructions (especially for lagers) which encourage that. Tis' one of the many shortcomings of certain kit instructions.

 

[DoWBrewer]

+1.



One note on this. For many brews, the gravity of that batch wort is going to be higher than what you want for starter wort. You want starter wort to be between 1.030 and 1.040. You may have to dilute it some (with boiled/cooled water) to get to the appropriate gravity.

Good point, I forgot to mention the gravity. You definitely want to dilute to the correct gravity. I write the gravity on the jars, so I know for later.