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Yeast starter for reduction of esters

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Ninoid

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I use only dry yeast and always pitch it to fermenter. Sometimes first hydrate it.
And my beers ferments in uncontrolled, mostly warmed condition.

What do you think would help to make a yeast starter with a little DME one day earlier and thus achieve overpitch in order to reduce esters?
 

flars

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Temperature not being controlled is the most likely culprit for excess ester production from stressing the yeast. A swamp cooler is the simplest method of temperature control. You could also begin using yeasts that are designed for hot fermentations if controlling the temperature for the regular ale yeast is impractical.
 

danielthemaniel

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1. Keep fermentation on the cooler side of the yeasts preferred temp range.
2. Pitch enough yeast that they wont be stressed during fermentation.
 
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Ninoid

Ninoid

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1. Keep fermentation on the cooler side of the yeasts preferred temp range.
2. Pitch enough yeast that they wont be stressed during fermentation.
I don't have condition for keep fermentation on the cooler side. This is my problem and I try to find solution on other side. I live in warmer climate and, most time of year, Saison is my only choice.
 

danielthemaniel

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I don't have condition for keep fermentation on the cooler side. This is my problem and I try to find solution on other side. I live in warmer climate and, most time of year, Saison is my only choice.
How do you cool your wort? Can you try to get it below the starting temp of what the yeast calls for so that it limits the time spent at a higher temp? If nothing else you can fill the bath tub up with cold water and ice (frozen 2 liters are great) and set the fermenter in it. You really only need to control the temp during the active primary fermentation. After a week or so the potential for the esters has passed.
 

flars

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Look up Kviek yeasts and Omega hot ale yeasts. These yeasts are designed for hot fermentations and they don't have to be a Belgian saison.
 
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Ninoid

Ninoid

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I cannot find liquid yeasts in my stores. Only few and is expensive.
 
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Ninoid

Ninoid

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Describe the area you have to brew in. House with a basement? Apartment?
In apartment.
I try to find another way for esters reduction because I, and many other homebrewers, not have place for fridge or bath tub in apartment.
 

flars

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Unfortunate you are in an area where supplies for brewing are difficult to get. Yeast harvesting might be an option for you and your brewing friends. Purchase one package of yeast which ferments clean at high temperatures. Harvesting the yeast from a 5 gallon beer will yield enough yeast for 4 to 5 more 5 gallon brews. Harvesting is easy to do. Sanitation is the critical part of harvesting.
 

corax

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In my opinion there's not much point to making a starter for dry yeast. If you need a larger pitch, just add another pack of dry yeast. It can't hurt to hydrate them first, and might help.

If all else fails, take a page from the ancients - stock up in the spring, and don't brew in summer.
 
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Ninoid

Ninoid

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In my opinion there's not much point to making a starter for dry yeast. If you need a larger pitch, just add another pack of dry yeast. It can't hurt to hydrate them first, and might help.

If all else fails, take a page from the ancients - stock up in the spring, and don't brew in summer.
Did not the starter cheaper than putting two dry yeast pouches with the same effect?
 

corax

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Did not the starter cheaper than putting two dry yeast pouches with the same effect?
I don't know -- it depends on how expensive your dry yeast is, and how valuable your time is. For me, two packs wins every time.

You also need to consider whether or not you'd get much population growth by putting a pack of dry yeast in a typical starter. Or rather, how large a starter you'd need to get significant population growth over and above one pack of dry yeast. There are a lot of yeast cells in a typical pack (~200 billion when fresh), and yeast will not reproduce over and above a certain number of cells per ml.

Using the numbers here: http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php , a single pack of dry yeast already maxes out a 2 liter starter. You'd want a 4 liter starter to get just a single doubling of the population. Going with 2 packs is sounding cheaper and cheaper!
 

mongoose33

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Have you considered a swamp cooler setup to reduce the temp of your fermenting wort?

Yeast is exothermic, which means it produces heat as it ferments. It can raise the temperature of the wort by 5-10 degrees F, 3-6 degrees C. If it's warm to begin, it can be at the upper-end of that range. That's likely the problem.

A swamp cooler is a pan of water into which you place the fermenter. Then drape a t-shirt or similar over the fermenter and let it dangle in the water. The water that is drawn up into the shirt will evaporate, cooling the fermenter. You can make it even more effective by directing a fan to blow over the fermenter and accelerate the evaporation.

Here's a pic that shows what I'm talking about. You can do this if you have a carboy or even a bucket.

swampcooler.jpg
 
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Ninoid

Ninoid

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I try one time T-shirt soaked in water and dropped the temperature only 3'C, which was not enough. Water is rapidly evaporate. too much work for a weaker effect.
 
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Ninoid

Ninoid

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I don't know -- it depends on how expensive your dry yeast is, and how valuable your time is. For me, two packs wins every time.

You also need to consider whether or not you'd get much population growth by putting a pack of dry yeast in a typical starter. Or rather, how large a starter you'd need to get significant population growth over and above one pack of dry yeast. There are a lot of yeast cells in a typical pack (~200 billion when fresh), and yeast will not reproduce over and above a certain number of cells per ml.

Using the numbers here: http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php , a single pack of dry yeast already maxes out a 2 liter starter. You'd want a 4 liter starter to get just a single doubling of the population. Going with 2 packs is sounding cheaper and cheaper!
Is not any trouble take 4L from wort, cool them and make the starter for 24 hours until the rest of the wort cools naturally.
 

RustyBumper

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Get a 25 gal Tupperware container put in carboy and some ice bricks. Get at least 4 of them, 2 in morning, 2 when you get home, 2 before bed. Should keep you in low to mid 60s for 5 gal batch.
 

RustyBumper

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Get a 25 gal Tupperware container put in carboy and some ice bricks. Get at least 4 of them, 2 in morning, 2 when you get home, 2 before bed. Should keep you in low to mid 60s for 5 gal batch.
Oh fill with water
 
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Ninoid

Ninoid

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Get a 25 gal Tupperware container put in carboy and some ice bricks. Get at least 4 of them, 2 in morning, 2 when you get home, 2 before bed. Should keep you in low to mid 60s for 5 gal batch.
That's too big! I have no room for such a pot. I'm thinking of faded cartridges for a portable cooler that I would stick to my fermenter around.
 

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