Yeast Starter for Lager

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HikeNC

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Hey,

I'm about to brew my first dopplebock and need ~ 544 billion yeast cells. What is the best way to achieve this number? I entered two vials of the german bock yeast into beersmith for a 1.5 quart starter (with a stir plate) and it said 592 billion would be created. Is that right?

Thanks
 

DSmith

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Calcs from http://www.yeastcalc.com/

Option #1
You could put 2 vials into a 3L starter (stirred) and get very close to what you need. Chill & decant. Plan for 4 days prior to brewing.


Option #2
You could put 1 vial into a 1.5L starter (stirred), chill & decant, add that yeast into a 3L starter (stirred), chill & decant. That would be about 25% more yeast then you need. Plan for 8 days prior to brewing.

I'd choose option #2.
 

DSmith

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The Mr Malty calculator is great for 1-step starters. The Yeastcalc one perfectly matches that one. The Yeastcalc webpage does stepped starter calcs much easier than the work arounds used with Mr Malty. Both are great tools that you should add to your "Favorites" tab in your web browser.
 
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HikeNC

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The Mr Malty calculator is great for 1-step starters. The Yeastcalc one perfectly matches that one. The Yeastcalc webpage does stepped starter calcs much easier than the work arounds used with Mr Malty. Both are great tools that you should add to your "Favorites" tab in your web browser.
Thanks for the Yeastcalc site. Thats really nice that has calculations for step starters. I made my first starter two days ago and Put it in the refrigerator several hours ago so I can decant before stepping it up. How long should it take for the yeast to settle out? It seems likes it's pretty slow; it's the wlp833 German bock lager stran.
 
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HikeNC

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Also, does anyone use beersmith for their calculations? The Yeastcalc site says the number of cells created with a 1.5 L start with no aeration is 156 B and beersmith is the same. If you change the settings to a stir plate, the yeastcalc says it creates 236 B cells while beersmith creates 409 B cells. Just curious about these differences....
 

DSmith

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That's hard to put a timeline on. Here's some personal recommendations assuming the starter is undisturbed in a fridge:

12 hours minimum
24 hours better
48 hours best

The starter should be very transparent, pic below of a stater crashed for at least 48 hours before decented with the 1/4" polyethylene tubing method. At 48 hours the yeast and sediment are pretty compact and you need to leave enough liquid (1/2 L...) to get everything back into suspension without being chunky. Putting it back on a stirplate after decenting may be helpful but I've never tried that yet.

Yeast Starter_Pic 4.jpg
 
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HikeNC

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Thanks for the info and photo. I just wasn't sure how the yeast would be effected being store at that temp for x amount of time.
 

DSmith

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Also, does anyone use beersmith for their calculations? The Yeastcalc site says the number of cells created with a 1.5 L start with no aeration is 156 B and beersmith is the same. If you change the settings to a stir plate, the yeastcalc says it creates 236 B cells while beersmith creates 409 B cells. Just curious about these differences....
The Mr Malty calculator is overwhelmingly accepted as the one to use. It's a good test to compare tools if you stray from that one. Yeastcalc passes that test. I use Promash for recipe scaling and mash strike temperature/infusion volmes but go to different tools for yeast and water/pH calculations. That information seems to be best coming from experts in those fields.
 
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HikeNC

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Ill have to start using those two sources instead. Speaking of mash calculations.... Say I wanted to do a step mash schedule with a rest at 122 and then sacc at 156 followed by a mash out. I've been using 1.25 qts per pound for my single infusion mashes. How much water is usually added in the first addition to achieve 122 degrees? I want to make sure I won't add too much water over the whole process.
 

DSmith

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I sent you a private message about your last post. You'll need to give me your grain weight and I'll message you an expected infusion mash schedule. But, I'd add margin in boil volumes everywhere, start out extra thick, raise the protien rest to 130F if you're set on doing one and probably skip mashout.
 
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