Yeast Dilema

[GASoline71]

So I brewed a Dunkelweizen (extract with steeping grains) on Dec 14. Pitched some Wyeast #3333 (German Wheat) at a kinda low temp. I wasn't paying attention, and let the wort chill to 68 degrees. So when I added another gallon of water to bring it up to 5 gallons in the bucket. Which chilled it to 64 degrees. Crap... so I pitched anyways. Set the fermenter up with a heating pad in the garage, and got the wort up to 68ish. Been holding it between 65 and 68 for 2 days. This morning I swished the bucket around a bit to stir things up. As of noon today... still not one bubble out of the airlock.

I called the LHBS where I got my supplies and the owner asked me to bring in the Wyeast smack-pak. I happened to still have it in the garbage can. So I pulled it out of the trash and took it to him. He checked the date. It was Aug 2012. So it should still be good. He was out of the Wyeast #3333. But he gave me a vial of White Labs of WLP #300 (Hefeweizen Ale) to pitch later this evening if I still had no yeast activity. He's a good cat. Didn't even charge me for the White Labs vial.

Anyways... When I got home from LHBS today, I pulled the bucket lid off and confirmed there has been no activity. I shook the WLP and set it on top of the fridge where it is warm to come up to room temp. For giggles I went out and had my daughters boyfriend shake up the bucket a little to see if anything would happen. Well, here I am 4 hours later and I now have just a little airlock activity from the Wyeast I pitched 2 days ago. Ugh...

So now I'm wondering if I should go ahead and pitch the WLP #300 as it's been shaken up, and been sitting out at room temp for 4 hours. I don't want to waste the yeast. But don't want to over pitch either. I didn't use a starter on this beer either. I kept the ABV down to 4.4% for my girlfriend. So the OG was 1.050.

Suggestion? Go ahead and pitch the WLP #300? Or continue to wait until tomorrow to see if there is fermentation actually happening? IF I don't pitch the WLP# 300 can I put it back in the fridge?

Gary

 

[helibrewer]

I actually think you're underpitched without a starter. You could do a starer of the white labs and pitch it at high krausen in about 24 hours.

The viabilty of a 4 month old smakpac is probably about 60%

 

[freisste]

Sometimes it takes a while for fermentation to start. If it hasn't been 72 hours, I wouldn't start trying to "fix" things.

If the pack said August, you are 2/3 of the way through the best by period (I think they recommend within 6months). So I doubt that is much of an issue. Your wort was less than 1.060, so I think the pack should have been good without a starter.

Personally, I don't think you have a problem. Maybe it was just a bit of a slow start because of the cool start. You may have shocked the yeast just a little. I don't know the recommended temp range, however I always cool to below the temp range given by a couple degrees, then let the temp rise to about 2-3 degrees above the minimum to avoid flavors. That way I know I don't over temp the yeast.

Leave it alone, especially if it is bubbling now.

 

[logan3825]

Did you take a gravity reading? Unless you did you really didn't confirm lack of fermentation. At a temperature that low fermentation may not show any visible signs.

 

[GASoline71]

If I don't do anything... what to do with the WLP #300? Can I put it back in the fridge?

This the first "real" problem I've had in the 1.5 years I've been brewing.

Gary

 

[logan3825]

Yeah put it in the fridge.

 

[GASoline71]

I actually think you're underpitched without a starter. You could do a starer of the white labs and pitch it at high krausen in about 24 hours.

The viabilty of a 4 month old smakpac is probably about 60%

I thought about a starter, but since it was a low OG beer, I decided not to.

Did you take a gravity reading? Unless you did you really didn't confirm lack of fermentation. At a temperature that low fermentation may not show any visible signs.

I didn't take a reading as I've never seen yeast ferment that fast and not leave at least a krausen ring on the sides of the bucket. There are no signs of fermentation at all. All the "wheat" yeasts I've used damn near explode when they ferment. This one is the slowest starting yeast I've ever seen.

Sometimes it takes a while for fermentation to start. If it hasn't been 72 hours, I wouldn't start trying to "fix" things.

If the pack said August, you are 2/3 of the way through the best by period (I think they recommend within 6months). So I doubt that is much of an issue. Your wort was less than 1.060, so I think the pack should have been good without a starter.

Personally, I don't think you have a problem. Maybe it was just a bit of a slow start because of the cool start. You may have shocked the yeast just a little. I don't know the recommended temp range, however I always cool to below the temp range given by a couple degrees, then let the temp rise to about 2-3 degrees above the minimum to avoid flavors. That way I know I don't over temp the yeast.

Leave it alone, especially if it is bubbling now.

I'm wondering if the bubbles (if any) I'm seeing now are just from the daughters boyfriend shaking the fermenter for me. It's basically dead again.

Gary

 

[logan3825]

I didn't take a reading as I've never seen yeast ferment that fast and not leave at least a krausen ring on the sides of the bucket. There are no signs of fermentation at all. All the "wheat" yeasts I've used damn near explode when they ferment. This one is the slowest starting yeast I've ever seen.

It probably isn't fermenting fast at all. In fact probably the opposite. It is fermenting very very slow which wouldn't show any visible signs. That is why you should take a gravity reading. You really under pitched and are fermenting at the low end of the range. I am sure it will ferment but not very fast.

I think this is relevant. Sure it is about stuck fermentation but it is relevant.

You didn't post a gravity reading so therefore I don't see why you think you have a stuck fermentation? All I see is you talking about your airlock which means absolutely nothing....

Except that your airlock stopped....

Airlock bubbling and fermentation are not the same things, so a slowing airlock doesn't equate with slowing fermentation, or really anything....

Airlock activity is irrevelent. Just gravity points on a hydrometer. And yes bubbling slows down eventually.

Airlock bubbling (or lack) and fermentation are not the same thing. You have to separate that from your mindset. Airlock bubbling can be a sign of fermentation, but not a good one, because the airlock will often blip or not blip for various other reasons...so it is a tenuous connection at best.

If your airlock was bubbling and stopped---It doesn't mean fermentation has stopped.

If you airlock isn't bubbling, it doesn't mean your fermentation hasn't started....

If your airlock starts bubbling, it really doesn't matter.

If your airlock NEVER bubbles, it doesn't mean anything is wrong or right.

Your airlock is not a fermentation gauge, it is a VALVE to release excess co2. If it bubbles it is because it needs to, if it doesn't, it just means it doesn't need too...


Your HYDROMETER is the only BEST indicator of fermentation activity. Nothing else is accurate or consistent...

Unless you take a gravity reading you don't know what's really going on, not by airlock bubbling or by krausen formation. Neither of those signs are effective, they don't tell you exactly where on the fermentation process you are.

Fermentation USUALLY slows down after a few days, which means then that less co2 is being produced, which usually means there's no EXCESS co2 to NEED to come out of the airlock.

But that does NOT mean fermentation has topped.

Fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happening, doesn't mean that any-thing's wrong,, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working diligently away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years.

That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon .

 

[GASoline71]

Thanks for the info! I'm going to go take a reading. BRB... lol

Gary

 

[GASoline71]

Just checked and it is still at 1.050

Gary

 

[logan3825]

Still a little early to worry about fermentation yet. I would check it again in another 24 hours.

I know that probably isn't the answer you wanted but I don't think you really need to worry yet.

 

[GASoline71]

10-4...

Not really worried. Just never had a yeast not take off at all. lol

Gary

 

[logan3825]

I honestly don't check on fermentation at all for about least 3 weeks so I have no idea if I have ever had a yeast start that slow. I am not bottling for 3-4 weeks so I don't worry about it. I just check here to make sure I use enough yeast, pith it and forget.

 

[GASoline71]

Well... I just let it sit... and today (4 days later) I was seeing a tiny bit of activity. An hour later, I had to install a blowoff tube. LOL!

This was the slowest starting yeast pitch I have ever seen.

Anyways... thanks for the replys and the help.

Gary