Wyeast Strain similar to SafAle English Ale S-04

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chaselun

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Driving up to my brewstore tomorrow and need the Wyeast strain that is similiar to SafAle English Ale (s-04). Making Chsrecats Double Chocolate Stout.

Im thinking maybe Wyeasts Whitbread Ale (1099)??

Thanks!
 

Rothman

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I think it is a closer match to the Fullers yeast, which is Whitelabs 002. There is chart online http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm, that says 002 is the same as Wyeast 1968.

I don't have any experience with the whitbread yeast but the white labs yeast is good for getting some English character.
 

mithion

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Driving up to my brewstore tomorrow and need the Wyeast strain that is similiar to SafAle English Ale (s-04). Making Chsrecats Double Chocolate Stout.

Im thinking maybe Wyeasts Whitbread Ale (1099)??

Thanks!
I'm not 100% sure, but I think you're right. I've seen other sources say that S-04 is similar to Wyeast 1099. I've never used S-04 but I've used 1099 on several occasions (have a special bitter sitting on 1099 in primary as we speak). It's one of my favorite strains so far. I don't know how it would do in a stout, but it's not highly attenuative so it should leave some residual sweetness for your stout. Might be a nice experiment.
 

statseeker

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I would use Safale-05 personally. I used it on my double chocolate with quite good results. Flocculation was good so the beer was not yeasty. Added the sweet malty character that you would look for in a stout.
 

kanzimonson

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Wyeast 1968 is close to S04, but I find the liquid yeast is a little maltier, and has a little lower attenuation. S04 to me seems like it's between 1968 and 1099.

S05 is not even close to an appropriate substitution. I despise that yeast. It is NOT a good flocculator, especially when compared against 1968 which has amazing flocculation (Though I will say that S05 has improved flocculation in dark beers).

I love the English ale yeasts for their extreme maltiness, rich flavor, and thicker mouthfeel. They're also a little sweeter, which I enjoy.
 

BuzzCraft

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Driving up to my brewstore tomorrow and need the Wyeast strain that is similiar to SafAle English Ale (s-04). Making Chsrecats Double Chocolate Stout.

Im thinking maybe Wyeasts Whitbread Ale (1099)??

Thanks!
it is supposed to be the whitbread strain. although i've not used 1099, i can tell you that the handful of times i've used S-04, my attenuation has been 80-81% (154F mashes), whereas with wlp002/wyeast 1968 in the same wort profile, i would usually get 72-75%.
 

kanzimonson

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Wow that's impressive attenuation for both of those strains. My typical with 1968 is 68%. That's with an average amount of specialty grains and 154 mash temp. Rarely will I pass 72%, and that takes some serious mashing to increase fermentability.
 

bierhaus15

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Foremost, S-04 is not a close replacement for wy1968 or wlp002. Yes, both are quick flocculators but the flavor profile is completely different. If you want s-04 in liquid, get wy1099 or 1098.

Also, if you are looking for more attenuation out of wy1968, you need to pitch a lot of yeast and oxygenate. I use this yeast ALOT and almost always get 75% attenuation out if it when I need it. I mash at 154F too...
 

kanzimonson

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Also, if you are looking for more attenuation out of wy1968, you need to pitch a lot of yeast and oxygenate. I use this yeast ALOT and almost always get 75% attenuation out if it when I need it. I mash at 154F too...
I usually pitch what Mr Malty says, so about .75mm/mL/*Plato. How much more are you pitching?

I love this yeast, so if I want to boost attenuation for a bigger beer, I'll almost always have at least a small sugar addition.
 

bierhaus15

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I usually pitch what Mr Malty says, so about .75mm/mL/*Plato. How much more are you pitching? I love this yeast, so if I want to boost attenuation for a bigger beer, I'll almost always have at least a small sugar addition.
I pitch pretty much the same as Mr. Malty recommends, though sometimes a bit more; you just don't want to under pitch this yeast. However, in order to get that 75% + attenuation out of this yeast, I've taken a cue from my local Ringwood breweries (middle ages, cooperstown) and started to do some yeast rousing. As with any fast flocculator, the yeast often drop clear before the beer attenuates fully, leaving a sweet beer. To keep the yeast in suspension for styles that need a dryer finish, I will gently swirl the fermenter once a day after high krausen starts to subside. If that is not enough, I have a rousing paddle I can use to get the yeast off the bottom and back into suspension. I rarely have to do this, but it works great and lets me brew IPA's and other "dryer" styles with this yeast while not having to mash really low. Actually, I brew a historical "Burton style IPA" about once a year with wy1968 and by rousing can achieve 85% attenuation on a beer with a starting gravity of 1.080.
 

kanzimonson

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Holy crap!

I've always been against rousing yeast, only because I had never really heard any positive success stories like this one. Most people give the fermentor a swirl and it only gets them a few extra points of attenuation.

I'm already using good temp control with this, and I thought that was enough. Usually I pitch around 65, let rise to 68, as things slow I kick up to 70, and finally hit 72 just as it's finishing out. Is this about what you do?

And what's your oxygenation method/times?
 

bierhaus15

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Yeah, most homebrewers have an unnatural fear of yeast rousing. Most seem to think it will either oxidize the beer or lead to infection. I was somewhat leery of it at first, but I started doing it more often as I began to use English yeast strains and having talked to some professionals who still use it (namely ringwood breweries). As I said, I don't use the rousing paddle very often, but it is effective in getting that additional 10% attenuation with these fast flocculating yeast strains. As for fermentation temps, I like to pitch a little higher around 68F and then either drop it to 65F or keep it as is, depending on the type of esters I want to develop. I typically ferment for two weeks at 65-68F and then do a D-rest at 72F for another week before bottling/kegging; my fermentation control has been very good. And for mash temps, I do most of my English pale ales around 154F for 90 min without a mashout.

I don't do anything extra special with oxygenation, usually aim for 8-12 ppm.
 
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