Wyeast 3711, share your experiences

[Beergnomes]

Used it for a fruited saison, added Brett 644 and pear nectar after one week of primary & dumping trub (ss conical) not sure it left anything for the Brett to eat. Please share experiences with this yeast.

 

[ktblunden]

It's a monster. I brewed a sour mashed saison with it and I think the FG was something like 1.004.

 

[Beergnomes]

Mine is at 5 brix 1.001 but might be inaccurate as I added pear nectar (not enough to be assertive) and Brett 644 to secondary. It had read 1.007 prior to additions. Really need some input because I will be bottling in a few weeks. Not sure it left anything for Brett to eat even with the pear nectar addition. Wish I had a microscope. This is in a ss conical which I love but I miss out on getting to actually SEE what is going on during fermentation. My mash schedule and grist should have given some residual sweetness but I don't taste any. I knew it would finish dry but I am starting to wonder if 3711 was just the wrong choice for where I was going with this one. To make it worse, 185.00 for Portuguese floor corker and 4 cases of 750 ml belgian bottles etc. not sure this batch will be worth it. Smells firkin great though. Am begging for help all over the place but no replies yet. I'll end up hung out to dry & totally winging it when I prime & bottle. aaarrrrggghhhh

 

[sweetcell]

don't worry about the brett, it doesn't need sugar to survive. it can survive on all sorts of other non-sugar food sources. in fact, you want it munch on the by-products of sacch in order to make its signature flavors. less sugar = brett will start those transformations sooner.

here is the 3711 mega-thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/wyeast-3711-french-saison-131414/

 

[sweetcell]

Mine is at 5 brix 1.001 but might be inaccurate as I added pear nectar (not enough to be assertive) and Brett 644 to secondary. It had read 1.007 prior to additions. Really need some input because I will be bottling in a few weeks. Not sure it left anything for Brett to eat even with the pear nectar addition.

there is plenty for the brett to eat, especially if it was at 1.007.

how soon do you plan on bottling? brett can super-attenuate a beer... or not. there is a chance that it will take your beer down to 1.000, just as there is a chance that it will only chew off a few points. the issue here is that if you go from 1.007 to 1.000, that's 3.5 volumes of carbonation - good, high carbonation for your saison. you wouldn't need to add any priming sugar. HOWEVER, there is no guarantee that you'll go that low. brett could stop at 1.003, meaning that you'll only get 2 vols of CO2 - too low for the style. because you've never done this recipe before, there is no way of knowing what the brett will do, or how quickly.

solution: give the beer 3 months to age out and for the brett to do what it's going to do. then, when you prime with sugar you'll have control over carbonation since that will be all that is contributing CO2 - not the brett. if you bottle any sooner, you're taking a chance on how much carbonation the slow-acting brett will add... could result in over-carbonation/bombs, or in under-carbonation.

 

[aslander]

I used it in a Saison that I brewed a month ago. Went from 1.070 to 1.006. It gave me much better attenuation than I really needed, so I am letting it age to mellow out the booze.

I fermented at 67 and it seems to be in between on the belgian phenols and fruitiness.

 

[dobe12]

Freaking monster yeast. Eats and eats and eats. I generally see 90+% attenuation and FG's always under 1.005. Usually around 1.002-1.003. Love the flavor profile and slick mouth feel. It really helps balance the extremely dry finish. The one thing I like and hate is how it accentuates other spices. Use them sparingly. It really makes them pop which can lead to too much spice flavor contribution. Have had that happen 2x now. It will also ferment over a wide range of temperatures, 60's up into the 90's.

Love that yeast.

 

[Beergnomes]

there is plenty for the brett to eat, especially if it was at 1.007.

how soon do you plan on bottling? brett can super-attenuate a beer... or not. there is a chance that it will take your beer down to 1.000, just as there is a chance that it will only chew off a few points. the issue here is that if you go from 1.007 to 1.000, that's 3.5 volumes of carbonation - good, high carbonation for your saison. you wouldn't need to add any priming sugar. HOWEVER, there is no guarantee that you'll go that low. brett could stop at 1.003, meaning that you'll only get 2 vols of CO2 - too low for the style. because you've never done this recipe before, there is no way of knowing what the brett will do, or how quickly.

solution: give the beer 3 months to age out and for the brett to do what it's going to do. then, when you prime with sugar you'll have control over carbonation since that will be all that is contributing CO2 - not the brett. if you bottle any sooner, you're taking a chance on how much carbonation the slow-acting brett will add... could result in over-carbonation/bombs, or in under-carbonation.

Thank you so much as I am stressing this one. It read 1.001 two days after intro of Brett & pear and another two days later it was still holding at 1.001 However, I have to take into account the volume of the pear nectar (three bottles at 33.8 oz ea) might have brought it down a little. I'm pretty hell bent on bottling after 3 weeks in primary because this is my ONLY fermenter and it will drive me nuts not to get on to my next brew day. So the lower the fg the more co2 units remain? I did order correct bottles, corks, hoods etc. Originally planned on using honey to prime since this has to bottle condition at length but now can't figure out how much if any to use.

 

[dobe12]

Thank you so much as I am stressing this one. It read 1.001 two days after intro of Brett & pear and another two days later it was still holding at 1.001 However, I have to take into account the volume of the pear nectar (three bottles at 33.8 oz ea) might have brought it down a little. I'm pretty hell bent on bottling after 3 weeks in primary because this is my ONLY fermenter and it will drive me nuts not to get on to my next brew day. So the lower the fg the more co2 units remain? I did order correct bottles, corks, hoods etc. Originally planned on using honey to prime since this has to bottle condition at length but now can't figure out how much if any to use.

Dude.... only 1 fermentor?

 

[Beergnomes]

don't worry about the brett, it doesn't need sugar to survive. it can survive on all sorts of other non-sugar food sources. in fact, you want it munch on the by-products of sacch in order to make its signature flavors. less sugar = brett will start those transformations sooner.

here is the 3711 mega-thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/wyeast-3711-french-saison-131414/

Thank you, I will also check out this thread.

 

[Beergnomes]

Dude.... only 1 fermentor?

14 gal more beer conical. I do 10 gal batches back to back. I love the performance, I hate not getting to see things in action, you barely even get airlock activity at 12 gallons because of the tremendous headspace. I will say the heat/cool temp control is fab but only brewing once every 3 weeks sucks. My FIRST beer, a British cask style ESB scored a 37 from AHA judges (all grain, my recipe & done in the conical) and I had to send it off too young, it was better 2-3 weeks later.

 

[Savage06]

I love 3711, like others have said it is a beast. I have mashed at 153-154 to try to keep a bit of body but nope still finished below 1.005.

So when you are formulating the recipe ignore the anticipated attenuation they list of around 83%. It Will Finish in the single digits, it has ever one of the 5+ batches I have used it for. Lest you sandbag yourself with a 7.5% beer that you were hoping would end up around 5%.

As far as phenols go it is very clove and pepper heavy, with a slight bit of tartness. So citrusy hops work as well as traditional saison varieties. Just keep in mind you're not trying to make an IPA. When I have gone heavy it tends to overwhelm the yeast.

I won a people's choice award with the below recipe at and event with 24 other brewers.

https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/mirthful-monk-saison

 

[sweetcell]

Thank you so much as I am stressing this one. It read 1.001 two days after intro of Brett & pear and another two days later it was still holding at 1.001

brett in secondary is slow acting. 2 days isn't enough to see its effects (unless maybe you pitched at MASSIVE amount, like the entire cake of an all-brett beer. but if you only pitched a vial or two, it's going to take a while before the brett really kicks up.

I'm pretty hell bent on bottling after 3 weeks in primary

So the lower the fg the more co2 units remain?

not quite. for every 2 point reduction in gravity you'll get 1 vol of CO2 - if that fermentation occurs in a sealed container. so if you bottle a beer at 1.008 and the brett takes it down to 1.002, that's a reduction of 6 points so 3 vols of CO2. the problem is, you don't know what the brett will do. it might take it down to 1.003, or 1.001, or 1.005...

however, if your beer is at 1.001, there is very little there for the brett to ferment. i think you'll be safe to bottle in 3 weeks. i misread earlier and thought you beer was at 1.010 - that would be too much residual sugar, the brett would have fermented it and possibly over-carbed your bottles.

Originally planned on using honey to prime since this has to bottle condition at length but now can't figure out how much if any to use.

because you're so low in residual sugars - 1.001 - you're probably good to go. i wouldn't prime any higher than 3.0 vols, to leave yourself a small safety margin.

 

[Beergnomes]

brett in secondary is slow acting. 2 days isn't enough to see its effects (unless maybe you pitched at MASSIVE amount, like the entire cake of an all-brett beer. but if you only pitched a vial or two, it's going to take a while before the brett really kicks up.


not quite. for every 2 point reduction in gravity you'll get 1 vol of CO2 - if that fermentation occurs in a sealed container. so if you bottle a beer at 1.008 and the brett takes it down to 1.002, that's a reduction of 6 points so 3 vols of CO2. the problem is, you don't know what the brett will do. it might take it down to 1.003, or 1.001, or 1.005...

however, if your beer is at 1.001, there is very little there for the brett to ferment. i think you'll be safe to bottle in 3 weeks. i misread earlier and thought you beer was at 1.010 - that would be too much residual sugar, the brett would have fermented it and possibly over-carbed your bottles.



because you're so low in residual sugars - 1.001 - you're probably good to go. i wouldn't prime any higher than 3.0 vols, to leave yourself a small safety margin.

Thanks, been doing some more studying but that was hugely helpful. Will proceed cautiously with the honey as planned.

 

[aslander]

Thank you so much as I am stressing this one. It read 1.001 two days after intro of Brett & pear and another two days later it was still holding at 1.001 However, I have to take into account the volume of the pear nectar (three bottles at 33.8 oz ea) might have brought it down a little. I'm pretty hell bent on bottling after 3 weeks in primary because this is my ONLY fermenter and it will drive me nuts not to get on to my next brew day. So the lower the fg the more co2 units remain? I did order correct bottles, corks, hoods etc. Originally planned on using honey to prime since this has to bottle condition at length but now can't figure out how much if any to use.

FG is not related to CO2 units remaining, whatever you mean by that.

As for your 1.001 reading, the pear nectar may have brought the FG down more than a little. You added .75 gallons of liquid. Assuming a 5 gallon batch, that's like 15% more liquid or so. Depending on the sugar content, that could very well skew the gravity significantly in either direction.

 

[Beergnomes]

FG is not related to CO2 units remaining, whatever you mean by that.

As for your 1.001 reading, the pear nectar may have brought the FG down more than a little. You added .75 gallons of liquid. Assuming a 5 gallon batch, that's like 15% more liquid or so. Depending on the sugar content, that could very well skew the gravity significantly in either direction.

I brew 10 gal batches so that I can use the cooling feature in my 14 gal conical. This batch was good and full so more like 11.5 gal. I agree that the sheer volume of nectar may have shaved points off. It has been a concern since I have to calculate priming. It has definitely not been overlooked by me. However, when you set the temp on a conical there is a two degree swing in either direction before heating or cooling kicks on and after pitching the Brett Troi and the pear nectar I also got an upswing in temp so one of the yeasts was eating that pear nectar. I can safely ascertain that the drop from 1.007 to 1.001 was at least in part due to fermentation. I think I'm going to guess the Brett may shave another 1/2 point and carb to 2.5 this should give me some wiggle room but not a lot. Since I'm not willing to wait to bottle, just have to take a stab & hope my instincts and the great help I got on here pay off.

 

[sweetcell]

I brew 10 gal batches so that I can use the cooling feature in my 14 gal conical. This batch was good and full so more like 11.5 gal. I agree that the sheer volume of nectar may have shaved points off. It has been a concern since I have to calculate priming. It has definitely not been overlooked by me. However, when you set the temp on a conical there is a two degree swing in either direction before heating or cooling kicks on and after pitching the Brett Troi and the pear nectar I also got an upswing in temp so one of the yeasts was eating that pear nectar. I can safely ascertain that the drop from 1.007 to 1.001 was at least in part due to fermentation. I think I'm going to guess the Brett may shave another 1/2 point and carb to 2.5 this should give me some wiggle room but not a lot. Since I'm not willing to wait to bottle, just have to take a stab & hope my instincts and the great help I got on here pay off.

Fruit contribute simple sugars. The sacch (3711) will ferment those out in a few days, much less than 3 weeks. So when it comes time to bottle take a measurement - sugars from the juice will be all gone. Then you'll know what the Brett has left to ferment.

 

[Beergnomes]

Fruit contribute simple sugars. The sacch (3711) will ferment those out in a few days, much less than 3 weeks. So when it comes time to bottle take a measurement - sugars from the juice will be all gone. Then you'll know what the Brett has left to ferment.

If I was to go by taste alone I'd guess they're already gone but I will def take another reading before priming and ... Lesson learned. If I ever add fruit nectar again, I will take a gravity reading of nectar, a reading immediately before adding and after adding.

 

[aslander]

I love 3711, like others have said it is a beast. I have mashed at 153-154 to try to keep a bit of body but nope still finished below 1.005.

So when you are formulating the recipe ignore the anticipated attenuation they list of around 83%. It Will Finish in the single digits, it has ever one of the 5+ batches I have used it for. Lest you sandbag yourself with a 7.5% beer that you were hoping would end up around 5%.

As far as phenols go it is very clove and pepper heavy, with a slight bit of tartness. So citrusy hops work as well as traditional saison varieties. Just keep in mind you're not trying to make an IPA. When I have gone heavy it tends to overwhelm the yeast.

I won a people's choice award with the below recipe at and event with 24 other brewers.

https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/mirthful-monk-saison

What temp do you ferment at? I did a saison at 68 with 3711 and didn't get many phenols like that. It wound up being pretty clean tasting.

 

[Calypso]

It's a monster. I brewed a sour mashed saison with it and I think the FG was something like 1.004.

I'm using it for a sour (wort) saison too, and it's great. After five days it was down from 1.053 to 1.007. Nine days, down to 1.005. I let it ferment at whatever temperature it wanted (70F ambient), and so far it is showing very nice citrus notes and a bit of spicy phenols. Fairly vigorous fermentation.

 

[unionrdr]

My saison with 3711 yeast was brewed on 5/26/14 & Started fermenting on 5/27. Today I got an FG of .996! I know this stuff goes low as FG's go,but geez!?
Temp of beer is 22C (71.6F). A bit cloudy yet,but a straw yellow color. I take it it's done? Bittering is nice,not too bitter. Light flavor as well...a tiny bit of malt comes through with maybe some spice from the esters. With the OG1.044,Cooper's formula gives 6.93%ABV.

 

[Beergnomes]

My saison is bottled and corked now so all done but the waiting. I always set aside one in a clear bottle to watch the color progress & taste test midway through conditioning & I accidentally opened it thinking it was something else. I was pleasantly surprised at how well it is coming along even though it will need months of bottle conditioning. I can't praise the smell of this yeast enough. It is so so wonderful on the nose. Makes you want to bury your head in the glass. Also, I expected more haze because the grist of my saison contained a portion of unmalted white wheat berries but, it was fairly clear already after only 1 week in bottle. The lack of expected haze was how I confused it with an ale I had bottled prior. I will definitely revisit this yeast.

 

[unionrdr]

Mine was in bottles 4 weeks by the time I put a few in the cooler. It's been a couple days today. Gonna try one later to see how they're coming along.

 

[elkshadow]

My brewing changed when I discovered this yeast. I make almost exclusively big belgians and I pretty much use nly this yeast anymore. I've tried WL500 and 550 but I haven't found anything like the beast that 3711 is. In the last year I've made:

Saison
Original Gravity................. 1.064
Final Gravity....................... 1.002

BGS
Original Gravity................. 1.094
Final Gravity....................... 1.003

BDS
Original Gravity................. 1.083
Final Gravity....................... 1.002

BGS
Original Gravity................. 1.094
Final Gravity....................... 1.003

BDS
Original Gravity................. 1.093
Final Gravity....................... 1.003

BDS
Original Gravity................. 1.098
Final Gravity....................... 1.003

Frankenbeer (English BW grain bill, Amer. IPA hop schedule and 3711)
Original Gravity................. 1.080
Final Gravity....................... 1.008

When I was using WLP500 or 550 my FGs were in the 1.015 neighborhood. I love how 3711 dries them out but they still don't taste dried out. I love the flavor profile and I could make only belgians and use only this yeast and be satisfied. Wait, that's what I already do!!! :cross:


EDIT: I just checked the one BDS I have going now. It started at 1.087 and it's at 1.004 and still going. Just a bit left in suspension. Tastes good.