Wyeast 2782-PC STARO PRAGUE LAGER

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JohnnyHa

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I have just noticed that Wyeast are making the above strain available again. Looks like the strain originates from the Staropramen brewery in Prague but apart from that I haven't found much information on this strain on HBT.

Looks like Wyeast haven't issued this strain for many years (2011?). Can anybody comment on their experiences with it, in particular in comparison to other Czech type lager yeasts (2000, 2001, 2278 etc.)?
 
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Yes, I brewed a series of lagers with this yeast in 2011 and at the time they were my best lagers. I remember liking it for a relatively forgiving temp range and producing full bodied and malt forward lagers with good complexity and no sulfur. I brewed the U Fleku recipe with it and it turned out great, also remember making a killer vienna with it as well. Will have to revisit it this winter.
 
Yes, I brewed a series of lagers with this yeast in 2011 and at the time they were my best lagers. I remember liking it for a relatively forgiving temp range and producing full bodied and malt forward lagers with good complexity and no sulfur. I brewed the U Fleku recipe with it and it turned out great, also remember making a killer vienna with it as well. [...]
Thanks, that sounds very promising indeed! I had definitely planned to make a Czech-type light coloured lager (Urquell-type) but perhaps I'll also try a Helles and something more malt forward!
 
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Yea I saw that too! I was looking to make some Czech Pilsner and dark Czech lager, so I'm thinking of picking one up. Interested to hear if anyone has any good or bad experiences with this yeast.
 
Where is this yeast available online? I contacted Morebeer and they don’t have it.
 
It's an October-December 2018 seasonal, so it's quite possible that it's not fully in the system yet. Also I've found in the UK that stores tend not to get the seasonals in by default, particularly something like this which might be seen as "just another lager strain" but they're happy to add it to their next order if you ask them. They might be ordering once a month or less, so don't expect it to show up on 1 October.
 
Bump. I just ordered this strain and will be doing a Bohemian Pilsner with it. Since there's not alot of info out there on it I can find, I intend to thoroughly document my experience with it here. If anyone else has anything to contribute about this strain please post it.
 
My next planned batch is a Bohemian Pilser with this yeast. As I haven't been able to travel to the Czech Rep. since last August I'm experiencing severe withdrawal and can't wait to start brewing...
:D
 
I just received a pack of this yeast last week. Planning to brew either a Helles or maybe some dark Czech lager with it in the next month or so. Or why the hell not both?!
 
I've waited several years for this yeast to come back around. I made a Dark Czech Lager with it a few weeks ago and fermented it in my Fermentasaurus in the garage at 50-55F under pressure. I only did a half-gallon starter, and had an OG of 1,070. I brewed the batch with 7 lbs of Czech Prostejov Munich Malt, 3 lbs of Weyermann Dark Munich (Type 2), 1 lbs of Weyermann CaraBohemian, and 3 oz of Carafa 1 added at mash-out. I did a decoction with it and it finished at 1,018. Kegged it 2 days ago and tasted fantastic already. I do know you'll need to bump the bitterness hop charge a bit with this yeast if you're brewing a hoppy Czech Pilsner, otherwise this yeast is great for many lager styles or to just showcase the malt you're using. I've got 4 oz of whole Czech Saaz in the freezer for my next batch with this yeast I'm brewing on Friday, going to add 3 oz in the whirlpool along with some Styrian Goldings that reportedly bring out some of the spicy notes of the Saaz hops more than going exclusively all Saaz.
 
Got my packet last week. The plan is to brew on 12/3 and I will begin my starter today. I will be doing a Czech Premium Pale Lager. Pulled it out of the fridge and burst the nutrient bubble. According to Brewer's Friend, my yeast viability out of the packet is 57%. Using 8.6 oz of DME in 5L of water on a stirplate should yield an estimated 397 billion cells at 1.54 million cells per ml per °P for an intended beer of 5.5 gallons with an OG of 1.05. I will update further with recipe and more specific details come brewday.
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Pics to follow this post. Due to the size of the photos it's only letting me post one at a time. Brew day pretty much went off without a hitch on a nice cold December morning. I brewed in my garage and temps didn't get far above 20°F.

I know that Czech Pilsners are supposed to be maltier compared to their German counterparts, but I went as dry as I could on this one.

I do biab. Grainbill was

10 lbs German Pilsner
1 lb German Munich 10L
0.5 lb German Melanoiden

Mashed with 8.5 gallons at 149°F for 90 minutes.
Mashed out at 168°F for 20 minutes.
Sparged 1 gallon giving me 8.5 gallons post-mash.

On top of that I've been reading more about decoction mashing and how it promotes Maillard reactions. I did my own version of this.
Utilizing a pressure cooker and Instapot I pressure cooked 7 gallons of wort for 1.5 hours, cooled it to 170°F, ran it through the grain in the grain bag to filter out the coagulated proteins and began the boil from there.

At this point I had just under 8 gallons pre-boil. My hop additions were

0.75 oz. Mandarina Bavaria @ 60 minutes
0.5 oz. Mandarina Bavaria @ 20 minutes
0.5 oz. Mandarina Bavaria @ 5 minutes

A pretty vigorous boil resulted in 5.75 gallons with an OG of 1.062 going into the fermenter. It was cooled to 50°F and yeast was pitched. This was on 12/4/2018 and it is still currently going at that temperature. Pics are coming up.
 
Pics as followed :

-More protein coming out of the pressure cooker

-Difference in wort before and after pressure cooking. The pressure cooked wort was noticeably darker, clearer, and different in taste. Typically I would just start the boil straight from the point of the lighter colered wort on the right.

-The boil.

-The gravity reading which when adjusting for temp came around 1.062.

-Aerated and cooled wort in fermenter.

-And the cooled and decanted yeast slurry of the Wyeast 2782 strain.
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Did you add nutrients? Pressure cooking is quite extreme and will destroy some of the FAN which might cause problems with fermentation.
 
Did you add nutrients? Pressure cooking is quite extreme and will destroy some of the FAN which might cause problems with fermentation.
There was still 2.5 gallons of wort not pressure cooked. As seen in this photo still quite a bit of protein seemed present in the final product. And yes I always add yeast nutrient and energizer.
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Pics as followed :

-More protein coming out of the pressure cooker

-Difference in wort before and after pressure cooking. The pressure cooked wort was noticeably darker, clearer, and different in taste. Typically I would just start the boil straight from the point of the lighter colered wort on the right.

-The boil.

-The gravity reading which when adjusting for temp came around 1.062.

-Aerated and cooled wort in fermenter.

-And the cooled and decanted yeast slurry of the Wyeast 2782 strain.
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Interesting! Please let us know how it turns out!
 
Those are coagulated proteins, the issue is with what's left dissolved in the wort. An all-malt wort has enough aminoacids to support fermentation, buf if you cook a relevant portion of it at a higher than normal temperature than that will be mostly destroyed and could cause fermentation issues, much like when you add large amounts of simple sugars to a recipe.
 
Those are coagulated proteins, the issue is with what's left dissolved in the wort. An all-malt wort has enough aminoacids to support fermentation, buf if you cook a relevant portion of it at a higher than normal temperature than that will be mostly destroyed and could cause fermentation issues, much like when you add large amounts of simple sugars to a recipe.
No proteins are constructed of amino acids. When heat is applied they become denatured losing their specific shape, but the amino acids are still present for the yeast to uptake.
Think of the process of frying an egg in a pan. The proteins are denatured and coagulated by the heat, but the amino acids within those proteins are still there. Our bodies are able to extract them and build them up to viable proteins or into energy our body needs. Yeast do the same thing.
 
Yeast do the same thing.

No they don't. Yeast are single-celled organisms, they have no mouth and no digestive tract capable of processing long-chain proteins.
They can only absorb mono- and dipeptides, which are created mostly during malting and also during mashing if you do a protein rest. This is known as the "FAN pool". Mono- and dipeptides do not coagulate but they can be destroyed by excessive heat loads, such as when boiling wort under pressure for a long period of time.
 
No they don't. Yeast are single-celled organisms, they have no mouth and no digestive tract capable of processing long-chain proteins.
They can only absorb mono- and dipeptides, which are created mostly during malting and also during mashing if you do a protein rest. This is known as the "FAN pool". Mono- and dipeptides do not coagulate but they can be destroyed by excessive heat loads, such as when boiling wort under pressure for a long period of time.

Just because yeast are single-celled, does not mean they are void of proteolytic capacity. They may not have complex digestive systems, but they are definitely capable of producing enzymes able to reduce proteins that are beyond the scope of simple peptide bonds. I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on the expanse of the proteolytic enzymes contained in yeast nor their effectiveness in reducing protein for energy or other processes, so for the sake of debate, I’m just going to say you are completely correct on your statement of yeast only being capable of absorbing basic peptides.

Going off that, I am extremely doubtful I could strip wort of it’s FAN content by pressure cooking only 75% of the wort, and I am also extremely doubtful you have any legitimate source to back that claim up. People utilize pressure cooked wort all the time in yeast starters. Wine, mead, and cider have far less FAN content and are still able to be fermented just fine. People don’t necessarily do protein rests and still somehow the yeast in their fermentations are able to access FAN. And I specifically mentioned I dosed my wort with yeast nutrient and yeast energizer.
 
Okay, I was just giving you valuable advice but since you seem set on refusing it based on your own ignorance of the subject matter then I'll just refrain from doing it in the future.

Just for those who might be interested, all-grain wort contains between 120-140 mg/l of available nitrogen. As I pointed out, most of it is created during malting, so much so that with modern malts a protein rest is no longer necessary but is still possible (i.e. proteolytic activitiy is still possible in the mash). Anything below 120 mg/l and you will have fermentation issues, which is not to say that your beer will not ferment, just that you will have issues ranging from excessive ester production to stuck fermentation. But if quality is all the same to you than by all means, don't waste any time on it.
And yes, temperatures above 100°C for a long time will affect FAN content, just as Saccharomyces cannot express proteolytic enzymes outside the cell walls, making it impossible for them to absorb anything made up of more than two aminoacids. If you heat-treat 75% of the wort then there is a good chance your final wort content will fall below 120 mg/l, so the usual amount of nutrients might still not be enough. Make of that what you will.
 
I brewed a 5G batch of Munich Helles using this yeast approximately 5 weeks ago. Based on the WY notes I hopped it a bit more aggressively than I normally would have. Here are my tasting and fermentation notes.

Fermentation:
1 fresh smack pack, 2.5L starter on a stir plate for 36 hours, entire starter pitched into the wort. Fermented at 10.5C for approximately 6 days, then raised 1.5C / day to 18C and left for two days. Transferred to CO2 purged secondary, dropped 2C / day until 3C. Conditioned for approximately 4 weeks. Transferred to CO2 purged keg, force carbonated at 30 PSI.

Tasting:
A: Produces a beaming white head, which recedes to a small fluffy cap. Beer is deep golden, semi clear (gelatin not fully kicked in).
A: Big hop noble hop character. Very clean otherwise.
T: Lots of noble hop flavour, with a pleasant and clean grainy sweetness on the back-end. Very nice balance. Not overly crisp, or malty. No diacetlyl at all. No sulfur. No acetaldehyde.
M: Light, clean and drinkable
O: This is a great beer. A bit hoppy for a Helles.. But good balance over all. Definitely re-using this slurry in a future batch.
 
Bumping this thread. I have brewed two beers with this yeast in the meantime. Due to me moving house and country this took longer than expected, and I had to revive the yeast over several days.

I brewed an U Fleku clone with a rather extensive decoction mash and a 2 hr boil on top, and I ended up at an OG of roughly 1050. I pitched a rather generous starter at a ratio of 1:6.7 and fermented at 11°C until finished. Bottled twelve days later on 16th March 2019 and added priming sugar for bottle conditioning. Conditioned at 11-13°C. The beer is very very good already: very round, mild roasty character, a little creamy and with a good malty body. I think it will be absolutely superb in another couple of weeks or so. There was some diacetyl when bottling but nothing made it into the final beer despite me not going over 13°C.

Second beer is a 100% Vienna Malt Lager, hopped with Saaz, Styrian Goldings and (in particular) Savinjski. Decoction mashing, ended up at roughly 1.054. Pitched a generous starter (ratio 1:6.5) again, fermented at 9.5°C and bottled with priming sugar after eleven days. That was six days ago. The sample I tried when bottling tasted very promising: a little sweet, quite malty and, again, with some diacetyl. The latter I don't expect to make it into the final beer despite me not going above 9.5°C during conditioning (in fact, I'm gradually cooling down the bottles by 0.5°C every few days).

I think this is a superb yeast: the malt profile is emphasised in a lovely way, the beers seem to turn out very round and balanced, and I have come across the term "creamy" in a couple of descriptions. However, with my method of brewing and bottle conditioning I'm still nowhere near the elusive secret of achieving a hint of diacetyl (which is so typical for some Czech lager beers) in my beers.
 
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What kinds of FGs are people getting with this? I made a NZ pils (big ol pitch from a friend who works at a yeast lab) that went from 1.062 to 1.016 in two weeks (didn’t mash high either). Added high krausen wort from a new Pilsner batch to hopefully get the FG down and simultaneously carb the beer - but surprised the FG was so high after 2 weeks (narziss fermentation schedule)
 
Bumping this thread. Over the last year I've brewed a total of six beers with this yeast, and I'm now going to put it into hiatus, so perhaps it's time for a brief summary.

The first five beers were pitched with starters, the last one with a freshly harvested yeast. Pitching ratios of the starters weren't very systematic (between 1:6 and 1:10), and neither were the temperatures during fermentation but pitching occurred between 8-10°C (46-50°F), main fermentation 1-2°C above pitching temperature, with temperatures being raised to 12-14°C (54-57°F) towards the end of fermentation.

All beers turned out nicely to superb. Common characteristics to all beers were soft to almost creamy bodies, malt-forwardness, no diacetyl in the finished beer, little to no sulfur during fermentation, no perceivable esters, little to no higher alcohols, and overall very round and well-balanced beers. Acetaldehyd is clearly there at the end of fermentation but disappears with conditioning. Sedimentation and disappearance of yeasty flavours sometimes took a while, the latter in particular in the two beers with high pitching rates.

The beers were as follows:
U Fleku Clone, 1.050, attn. 75%
Vienna Lager, 1.054, attn. 77%
Baltic Porter, 1.080, attn. 72%
Dark Lager with Brown Malt and Red Rye Cara, 1.052, attn. 73%
Munich Hell, 1.048, attn. 76%, currently conditioning
Maris Otter Lager, 1.048, still fermenting

All beers were brewed with varying decoction schemes.

As can be seen above, attenuation values weren't particularly high (so I can confirm jfolks' experience above with 75%) but so far I haven't perceived this as a problem, rather the opposite.

I haven't tried brewing a hop-forward beer so can't comment on that but overall I can give a big thumbs up for anything that is well-balanced and tends towards Bohemian beer styles.
 
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