Wyeast 2105-PC

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Brooothru

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Just curious about experiences other folks might have had with Wyeast 2105 PC Rocky Mountain Lager yeast. I've brewed twice with it before in the past year (Coors Light and Coors Banquet clones) with very good results. I'm on a 3rd generation pitch starter right now in a Pre-Prohibition lager that I usually ferment with WLP-830. I'm 5 days into fermenting at 50F, and the activity is slow in the blow-off line. Very slow.

The base yeast for the starter was harvested from a previous batch last April and took off quite well into a quart of prepared 1.040 wort and reached active krausen within 24-36 hours. I only propagated 1 quart since this was the last jar of my homemade starter wort. I crashed, decanted, then pitched ~800 ml of thick, viscous slurry into the fermenter. The wort and yeast were both at or near 50F. I oxygenated for 60 seconds after pitching and capping the fermenter.

After nearly 50 hours there was no visable activity in the blow-off. I was getting ready to give the yeast a burst of CO2 to kick start the process when I noticed a lone bubble.

"IT'S ALIVE!!!"

I raised the temperature to 53F, and after 4-6 hours there was a slow but steady parade of bubbles in the blow-off, however the rate hasn't increased past this stage of 8-10 bubbles per minute, and it's 5 days into fermenting. Gravity has dropped about 12 points, down from OG 1.045, so I know it's fermenting. My predicted FG was 1.009, but the FFT measured out at 1.004 after two days on a stir plate at room temperature. The FFT sample was done in the same Erlenmeyer flask as the pitched yeast, and the sample was drawn from the fermenter immediately after the pitch. Even though it's often the case that an FFT will finish 1~2 points lower than an actual fermenter wort, I have a hard time believing that it would be 5 points lower than my calculated estimate. 2105-PC only has an estimated attenuation of 70-74%.

So, the FFT took off like a rocket and finished way low, but the fermenting wort took forever to start and developed only a slow, weak stream of activity. This is not the way I remembered this yeast acting on the two previous times I used it. The malts bill is very similar to what I used before with 2105 yeast. The previous harvests of the yeast were clean and properly stored, and not more than 6 months old. There weren't any exotic adjuncts or chemicals used in the process. My notes from the previous brew sessions don't indicate anything unusual or out of the ordinary for a basically simple lager.

There shouldn't be much genetic shift in the yeast after just two generations (actually, only one generation since the 'first' was simply an over-built starter). Just curious if anyone else has had similar experiences with this yeast. My usual go to lager yeasts are WLP-830, 838 and 840.

Comments and suggestions appreciated.

Brooo Brother
 
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Vale71

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On a more serious note, doing a single and rather small (this I determined after looking up how much a US quart actually is, once more :mad:) starter with very old yeast is probably what caused your fermentation to perform rather poorly. Most of the saved yeast was probably either dead or on the way there and you didn't get much propagation if any at all with your small, single-step starter. This being a cold-fermented lager only made everything worse, obviously.
 
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Brooothru

Brooothru

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On a more serious note, doing a single and rather small (this I determined after looking up how much a US quart actually is, once more :mad:) starter with very old yeast is probably what caused your fermentation to perform rather poorly. Most of the saved yeast was probably either dead or on the way there and you didn't get much propagation if any at all with your small, single-step starter. This being a cold-fermented lager only made everything worse, obviously.
Pretty much what I'd figured, but didn't want to admit. That said, I was encouraged by the level of activity and the attenuation of the FFT. Now my worry is the likely under-pitch and possible presence of diacetyl in the finished beer.
 

couchsending

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This is the Andechs strain of yeast.

It’s awesome yeast that in my opinion accents malt a little more than hops. Coors ferments it super warm under pressure but it’s been very fast and clean at 50 for me.

I usually pitch it at 46 and set to 48. Next day set to 50 and leave it until sub 1.020 where I’ll let it go to 53/54. 9 times out of 10 it’s done on day 7 and has started to flocc. It makes really clear, clean beer very quickly. Been using the White Labs or Wyeast version of this yeast for over a year now and it’s rock solid every time.

Pretty sure you just had some old, dead yeast. White Labs has their version out now (835, German Lager X). Just got 4 vials last week from the Vault.
 
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Brooothru

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This is the Andechs strain of yeast.

It’s awesome yeast that in my opinion accents malt a little more than hops. Coors ferments it super warm under pressure but it’s been very fast and clean at 50 for me.

I usually pitch it at 46 and set to 48. Next day set to 50 and leave it until sub 1.020 where I’ll let it go to 53/54. 9 times out of 10 it’s done on day 7 and has started to flocc. It makes really clear, clean beer very quickly. Been using the White Labs or Wyeast version of this yeast for over a year now and it’s rock solid every time.

Pretty sure you just had some old, dead yeast. White Labs has their version out now (835, German Lager X). Just got 4 vials last week from the Vault.
Thanks for the heads up about the White Labs variant and the genetic ancestry with Andrechs. That explains a lot about how it behaves in the fermenter. I'm convinced the feeble performance I've had in this batch had as much to do with the under pitch as well as the age of the harvested yeast used for the starter. Clearly I should have stepped it at least twice before using. That said, the FFT sample really exploded (not literally) on the stir plate. The Erlenmeyer flask that was used to culture the starter was not rinsed or sanitized before it was used for the FFT, but was covered with foil before the wort sample was added, and the total exposure time between pitching the starter and adding the fresh wort sample was less than :05 minutes, so exposure to wild yeasts or any bacterial infection should have been minimal. So there were an abundance of active yeasties in the FFT flask. As I noted, the FFT was at 1.004 SG after 48 hours on the stir plate, which was 5 points below what I had calculated before hand based on 70-74% predicted attenuation.

The strain drops like a rock very quickly, but not completely, I've noted. The bulk settles rapidly but a small amount stays behind for a week or more before dropping to near brilliance. Interesting yeast, to say the least, and a very good performer.
 
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Brooothru

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This is the Andechs strain of yeast.

It’s awesome yeast that in my opinion accents malt a little more than hops. Coors ferments it super warm under pressure but it’s been very fast and clean at 50 for me.

I usually pitch it at 46 and set to 48. Next day set to 50 and leave it until sub 1.020 where I’ll let it go to 53/54. 9 times out of 10 it’s done on day 7 and has started to flocc. It makes really clear, clean beer very quickly. Been using the White Labs or Wyeast version of this yeast for over a year now and it’s rock solid every time.

Pretty sure you just had some old, dead yeast. White Labs has their version out now (835, German Lager X). Just got 4 vials last week from the Vault.
WOW! Just spent a half hour online trying to find anybody who still has this available in stock. Nada. Even Yeastman @ White Labs shows no availability in San Diego, Copenhagen or Hong Kong. Must be a worldwide demand for Coors.

The Vault for WLP-835 is supposed to be open Oct-Dec, but demand has outstripped supply. Guess I'd better work at reviving my Wyeast 2105-PC.

Brooo Brother
 

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WOW! Just spent a half hour online trying to find anybody who still has this available in stock. Nada. Even Yeastman @ White Labs shows no availability in San Diego, Copenhagen or Hong Kong. Must be a worldwide demand for Coors.

The Vault for WLP-835 is supposed to be open Oct-Dec, but demand has outstripped supply. Guess I'd better work at reviving my Wyeast 2105-PC.

Brooo Brother
Give then a call. As of Wednesday they had 200 vials in stock in San Diego. You can sign up for a vault availability email that goes out every Wednesday. I think they just finished production of it last week so it should be going out to retailers soon. The other two seasonal’s were available at the start of October but for some reason 835 took longer.

030, 515, and 585 are also available right now. Great strains that I don’t think are available from anyone else, at least at Homebrew scale. (I guess Omega might offer something like 515)
 

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I like a clean lager a lot in summer. Recently in Australia, coors has been in a lot of bottle shops and while I’m sure people may cringe, i find it super clean and way too easy to drink.

Anyway, I finally found some 2105 and I would like to give a clone a try. I do not expect it to be the same obviously, just a clean lager that is hopefully along the same lines.

What would a starting recipe be?

I usually brew Australian adjunct lagers ( domestic pils and dextrose or rice, low mash temps, low Ibu, fermented cold, 3.5-4%abv ) so I’m comfortable with brewing lagers.
 

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I like a clean lager a lot in summer. Recently in Australia, coors has been in a lot of bottle shops and while I’m sure people may cringe, i find it super clean and way too easy to drink.

Anyway, I finally found some 2105 and I would like to give a clone a try. I do not expect it to be the same obviously, just a clean lager that is hopefully along the same lines.

What would a starting recipe be?

I usually brew Australian adjunct lagers ( domestic pils and dextrose or rice, low mash temps, low Ibu, fermented cold, 3.5-4%abv ) so I’m comfortable with brewing lagers.
Probably something like 10-20% rice, rest pilsener, 15-18ibus, 60 minute bittering only with something clean like Magnum.
 

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I just got 3kg of flaked rice. I normally do a cereal mash with rice but it really isn’t that expensive for the small amount I use in each batch so I just bought some.

What you’ve suggested is pretty much what I do for summer lagers, just with either danish lager ( my fave ), 029 German ale ( so lager like I wonder why I don’t just use it in all my lagers haha ) and not long ago I tried San Francisco lager yeast ( fermented cold ), which was lovely.

Looking forward to brewing with this yeast
 

Miraculix

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I just got 3kg of flaked rice. I normally do a cereal mash with rice but it really isn’t that expensive for the small amount I use in each batch so I just bought some.

What you’ve suggested is pretty much what I do for summer lagers, just with either danish lager ( my fave ), 029 German ale ( so lager like I wonder why I don’t just use it in all my lagers haha ) and not long ago I tried San Francisco lager yeast ( fermented cold ), which was lovely.

Looking forward to brewing with this yeast
I am actually not sure if Coors uses corn instead of rice..... You might want to check that. I just remember that between miller and Coors the difference is corn Vs rice.... But don't remember which was which.
 
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Brooothru

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I've got two recipes you might be interested in. One is a Coors Light clone that is barely discernable from the original and a Coors Banquet that I'm yet to try since it's been lagering for the last 4 months. Getting ready to tap that keg as soon as there's room in the kegerator. Give me a couple of hours to extract them from the hard drive (typing from phone currently).

I will say, the 'Light clone' certainly "evaporated" quickly last summer and I'm anxious to rebrew. I really liked the 2105-PC yeast. Unfortunately the sample that I harvested and banked 6 months ago has developed some mold and needs to be tossed. Where'd you find yours? I'm told it's the Andrechs strain so I might have to find something similar in a German strain. Sure did like that 2105-PC though.

Brooo Brother
 
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couchsending

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I've got two recipes you might be interested in. One is a Coors Light clone that is barely discernable from the original and a Coors Banquet that I'm yet to try since it's been lagering for the last 4 months. Getting ready to tap that keg as soon as there's room in the kegerator. Give me a couple of hours to extract them from the hard drive (typing from phone currently).

I will say, the 'Light clone' certainly "evaporated" quickly last summer and I'm anxious to rebrew. I really liked the 2105-PC yeast. Unfortunately the sample that I harvested and banked 6 months ago has developed some mold and needs to be tossed. Where'd you find yours? I'm told it's the Andechs strain so I might have to find something similar in a German strain. Sure did like that 2105-PC though.

Brooo Brother
It’s the same as 835. White Labs has a bunch of it in stock.

It’s funny I don’t think Coors Banquet is very clean at all. The banana aroma is often rather strong. Make a big starter of this yeast and smell the starter... will remind you of Coors. Coors is fermented under pressure at high temps and they probably use all sorts of fun enzymes to be able to turn it around in under 30 days. It’s really hard to replicate the flavor/aroma of mass produced lager without all the crazy equipment they have.

This is a great yeast for soft malt driven lagers. It’s maybe not the best yeast for any sort of hop forward lager as it tends to mute hops.
 
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Brooothru

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As luck would have it I just received 2 WLP-835 deliveries earlier this month since I wasn't sure if I could find any 2105-PC available. I was really bummed out when I saw the mold growing on top of my 2105 harvest. I didn't get any banana or clove when I brewed the Light, and I haven't sampled the Banquet since it started lagering. Both were fermented at 50F. Checking my brew log for the Light, I see that I added 0.5 tsp amyloglucosidaise to the fermenter along with 1# dextrose and 2 oz extra light DME. Weird. I don't remember any of that extra stuff. OG 1.030 and FG 0.998. Lots of crazy water additions as well (almost never use baking soda and chalk to build a water profile; probably because I'd normally used distilled for a brew session like this).

I've been wanting to try some pressure brewing in my unitank and also got a vial of White Labs' "High Pressure" yeast, but I've got such a backlog of things I want to try that I'm not sure when it'll get put into the rotation. Low, slow and traditional is the way I like to brew lagers, but that said I also like to experiment with new methods and techniques. Maybe that's just a weird way of trying to validate the "old school" way of doing things.

Totally in agreement with your observation about "soft malt driven lagers", which I tending to return to as my primary favored style. My experience with 2105-PC was that it delivered those results, especially in a noble hops German style lager. Probably not the best yeast for a more aggressively bittered North American pre-prohibition style lager.
 

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I've got two recipes you might be interested in. One is a Coors Light clone that is barely discernable from the original and a Coors Banquet that I'm yet to try since it's been lagering for the last 4 months. Getting ready to tap that keg as soon as there's room in the kegerator. Give me a couple of hours to extract them from the hard drive (typing from phone currently).

I will say, the 'Light clone' certainly "evaporated" quickly last summer and I'm anxious to rebrew. I really liked the 2105-PC yeast. Unfortunately the sample that I harvested and banked 6 months ago has developed some mold and needs to be tossed. Where'd you find yours? I'm told it's the Andrechs strain so I might have to find something similar in a German strain. Sure did like that 2105-PC though.

Brooo Brother
That would be much appreciated thanks mate!. We only get coors light here, ive never seen banquet.
Since I’ve been drinking so much of it i tried to look for this yeast but never any luck but I managed to find some today. Should be here next week. I just got a pure o2 kit as well and will try that out on it too.
 
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Brooothru

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I like a clean lager a lot in summer. Recently in Australia, coors has been in a lot of bottle shops and while I’m sure people may cringe, i find it super clean and way too easy to drink.

Anyway, I finally found some 2105 and I would like to give a clone a try. I do not expect it to be the same obviously, just a clean lager that is hopefully along the same lines.

What would a starting recipe be?

I usually brew Australian adjunct lagers ( domestic pils and dextrose or rice, low mash temps, low Ibu, fermented cold, 3.5-4%abv ) so I’m comfortable with brewing lagers.
Here's what I dug out of my brew logs for the two beers (Coor's clones) using the Wyeast 2105-PC. The "Light" was very quaffable and went quickly. The "Banquet" is yet to be tapped. The yeast was easy to work with, attenuated well and cleared quite nicely by the time cold crash and transfer to keg were completed. One thing I noted was that the yeast cake was very light and fluffy and would get disturbed easily, though it would resettle within an hour or two.

Anyway, here's two recipes that worked out well and might give you a starting place for a nice tasting German/American lager, somewhere between a Dortmunder export and a Munich Helles, so there's LOTS of latitude to play around with. Prost!

Coor’s Light clone: 5.6 gallon batch, BJCP 1A “American Light Lager”

4# Weyermann Floor Malted Czech Pilsner
1# Rahr Pale Ale Malt
8 oz Flaked rice

1# Dextrose (late boil)
2 oz. Extra light DME (late boil)


0.15 oz. Herkules. 15.9%AA @ :15 mins
0.25 oz. Chinook. 11.2%AA @ :15 mins
1.00 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh 3.2%AA @ :05 mins


Wyeast 2105-PC “Rocky Mountain Lager”. 14 days @ 10C/50F
0.5 tsp amyloglucosidaise added to fermenter at Day 5 after high krausen

5 gravity points before FG, spund @ 15 psig
5 days diacetyl rest @ 70F

Note: original recipe called for 0.75# dextrose only. Extra dextrose and DME were added in late boil to correct for lower than planned post mash gravity.

OG. 1.030
FG. 0.998
ABV. 4.2%
IBUs 11.4
SRM. 2.4



Coor’s Banquet beer: 5.6 gallon batch, BJCP 1B “American Lager”

4# Weyermann Floor Malted Czech Pilsner
3# Rahr Pale Ale malt
2# 2# Flaked rice
8 oz acidulated malt
8 oz Carahell

0.15 oz Hallertau Magnum 10.7% @ FWH :75 mins
0.50 oz Chinook 11.8% @ :05 min
1.00 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh 3.2% @ steep :20 min/70C
0.50 oz Chinook 11.8% @ steep :20 min/70C

Wyeast 2105-PC “Rocky Mountain Lager” 14 days @ 10C/50F
5 gravity points before FG, spund @ 15 psig
5 days diacetyl rest @ 70F

OG 1.042
FG. 1.008
ABV. 4.5%
IBUs. 20.2
SRM. 3.5
 
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Brooothru

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Just did a 15 minutes quick search on the Google machine trying to find anybody with Wyeast 2105-PC in stock, but came up crickets. IIRC, last year it came out of Wyeast's "equivalent" of the Vault in February, so I don't know if I'm too early or too late. It was pretty hard to chase down last year. Finally snagged a pouch from Austin Homebrew, I think. Glad I scored some WLP-835 Andechs strain while it was out of the Vault.
 

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According the White Labs they will have 132 vials of 835 in inventory so it’ll probably be available for a bit. You can call and order it directly from them. You can also sign up for weekly emails with vault strain availability which is nice.

A lot of lager strains can be pressure fermented. Tons of breweries do it with the liquid form of 34/70. Pretty sure Coors is fermenting it in the upper 60s under pressure and using ALDC to eliminate any diacetyl.
 
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According the White Labs they will have 132 vials of 835 in inventory so it’ll probably be available for a bit. You can call and order it directly from them. You can also sign up for weekly emails with vault strain availability which is nice.

A lot of lager strains can be pressure fermented. Tons of breweries do it with the liquid form of 34/70. Pretty sure Coors is fermenting it in the upper 60s under pressure and using ALDC to eliminate any diacetyl.
I can't remember what strain from the vault I was trying to obtain one time, but I couldn't find it anywhere on line, but at the White Labs site they showed availability. Then when I went to order it showed zero. Do you have to have a special account to order direct?

On a related note, does anyone know why the Vault releases always seem to come in the "test tube" old style format instead of the Pure Pitch packs? Shouldn't make a big difference except for initial cell count, especially if you make a starter. Just curious if there's a reason behind the packaging of the Vault strains.

(note: both 835 vials I got last month were in vials [duh!], as was an 838 I got last year but just found last week, unused and well out of date, while doing 'inventory'. Ooops! I HATE it when I do that).
 
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Pretty sure Coors is fermenting it in the upper 60s under pressure and using ALDC to eliminate any diacetyl.
Are there any vendors who sell ALDC on a home brew retail scale? The only links I've seen are at least micro brewer scale sales. I'd love to try it out on a random Competition entry lager, and wait for the judges to criticize it for too much diacetyl. :mischievous:
 

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Are there any vendors who sell ALDC on a home brew retail scale? The only links I've seen are at least micro brewer scale sales. I'd love to try it out on a random Competition entry lager, and wait for the judges to criticize it for too much diacetyl. :mischievous:
I’ve never seen it packaged in smaller amounts anywhere.


I can't remember what strain from the vault I was trying to obtain one time, but I couldn't find it anywhere on line, but at the White Labs site they showed availability. Then when I went to order it showed zero. Do you have to have a special account to order direct?

On a related note, does anyone know why the Vault releases always seem to come in the "test tube" old style format instead of the Pure Pitch packs? Shouldn't make a big difference except for initial cell count, especially if you make a starter. Just curious if there's a reason behind the packaging of the Vault strains.

(note: both 835 vials I got last month were in vials [duh!], as was an 838 I got last year but just found last week, unused and well out of date, while doing 'inventory'. Ooops! I HATE it when I do that).
Yeah I don’t bother with trying to order anything online through them anymore. I just call customer service and give them my credit card. I created an “account” under yeastman a while back.

Yeah all Vault Strains come in the vials I believe.
 

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Here's what I dug out of my brew logs for the two beers (Coor's clones) using the Wyeast 2105-PC. The "Light" was very quaffable and went quickly. The "Banquet" is yet to be tapped. The yeast was easy to work with, attenuated well and cleared quite nicely by the time cold crash and transfer to keg were completed. One thing I noted was that the yeast cake was very light and fluffy and would get disturbed easily, though it would resettle within an hour or two.

Anyway, here's two recipes that worked out well and might give you a starting place for a nice tasting German/American lager, somewhere between a Dortmunder export and a Munich Helles, so there's LOTS of latitude to play around with. Prost!

Coor’s Light clone: 5.6 gallon batch, BJCP 1A “American Light Lager”

4# Weyermann Floor Malted Czech Pilsner
1# Rahr Pale Ale Malt
8 oz Flaked rice

1# Dextrose (late boil)
2 oz. Extra light DME (late boil)


0.15 oz. Herkules. 15.9%AA @ :15 mins
0.25 oz. Chinook. 11.2%AA @ :15 mins
1.00 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh 3.2%AA @ :05 mins


Wyeast 2105-PC “Rocky Mountain Lager”. 14 days @ 10C/50F
0.5 tsp amyloglucosidaise added to fermenter at Day 5 after high krausen

5 gravity points before FG, spund @ 15 psig
5 days diacetyl rest @ 70F

Note: original recipe called for 0.75# dextrose only. Extra dextrose and DME were added in late boil to correct for lower than planned post mash gravity.

OG. 1.030
FG. 0.998
ABV. 4.2%
IBUs 11.4
SRM. 2.4



Coor’s Banquet beer: 5.6 gallon batch, BJCP 1B “American Lager”

4# Weyermann Floor Malted Czech Pilsner
3# Rahr Pale Ale malt
2# 2# Flaked rice
8 oz acidulated malt
8 oz Carahell

0.15 oz Hallertau Magnum 10.7% @ FWH :75 mins
0.50 oz Chinook 11.8% @ :05 min
1.00 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh 3.2% @ steep :20 min/70C
0.50 oz Chinook 11.8% @ steep :20 min/70C

Wyeast 2105-PC “Rocky Mountain Lager” 14 days @ 10C/50F
5 gravity points before FG, spund @ 15 psig
5 days diacetyl rest @ 70F

OG 1.042
FG. 1.008
ABV. 4.5%
IBUs. 20.2
SRM. 3.5
Thanks mate, I have this week off so will brew a few cubes. I don’t have access to the enzyme you mentioned but with flaked rice and a long low mash my usual adjunct lagers finish around 1.006/7 so will be light bodied enough. If the beer ends up with that light smooth malty clean finish I’ll be happy.
 

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So I got a phone call from the brew shop. They don’t actually have any, the website is wrong!. I might have to try wlp835 IF I can get some haha
 

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Was able to get a nice pitch of Gen 1 Andechs from BSI from a local brewery. Very interested to see how it compares to X and the Wyeast Rocky Mtn Lager.

Did all Andechs in one Fv and 60/40 Andechs / Global in the other.

Also used some copper in the kettle this time around as I’ve been dealing with some sulfur lately with 835.
 

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Was able to get a nice pitch of Gen 1 Andechs from BSI from a local brewery. Very interested to see how it compares to X and the Wyeast Rocky Mtn Lager.

Did all Andechs in one Fv and 60/40 Andechs / Global in the other.

Also used some copper in the kettle this time around as I’ve been dealing with some sulfur lately with 835.
What temps do you normally ferment 835 at? I will be pitching soon at 8c. I usually pitch slightly cooler, then bring up to 10c.
 

couchsending

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What temps do you normally ferment 835 at? I will be pitching soon at 8c. I usually pitch slightly cooler, then bring up to 10c.
I've been pitching at 46 and fermenting at 50. At 1.020 I'll let it go to 54. That's the only fermentation
curve I've seen recommended for this yeast. KC Bier Co in Kansas City, who makes fantastic true to type German lagers is who recommended this as I guess it's what they do. I don't think this yeast is as good cold as 34/70. It seems to do a little better a touch warmer. I'll usually hit terminal in 6-7 days with this schedule. Leave it for 2 more days then slowly cool 3* F per day to 39 where I'll leave it for 7 days then continue to 30 or transfer to a keg and krausen.
 
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Brooothru

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For anyone interested I found some Wyeast 2105-PC at altitudebrewing.com in Denver, CO. I've never ordered anything from them, but they do have a wide selection of brewing paraphernalia. Prices seemed a tad high, but not out of reason.

One thing they do carry is a yeast brand that I'm not familiar with called Propagate Lab. I get the feeling their main customer might be commercial breweries, but they have a very detailed downloadable .pdf cross-referencing their yeasts with other common yeasts, along with the supposed origins. According to their chart, there are actually (at least) three Chico variants, two of which are allegedly common to Sierra Nevada and one common to Stone. That seems to support the spreadsheet data that D.M. Taylor compiled from numerous sources.

Anyway, the chart is worth perusing even if their yeasts don't interest you, but they claim to have 2x the cell count of Imperial and 4x Wyeast, for $12. Worth a look-see.
 

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I've been pitching at 46 and fermenting at 50. At 1.020 I'll let it go to 54. That's the only fermentation
curve I've seen recommended for this yeast. KC Bier Co in Kansas City, who makes fantastic true to type German lagers is who recommended this as I guess it's what they do. I don't think this yeast is as good cold as 34/70. It seems to do a little better a touch warmer. I'll usually hit terminal in 6-7 days with this schedule. Leave it for 2 more days then slowly cool 3* F per day to 39 where I'll leave it for 7 days then continue to 30 or transfer to a keg and krausen.
Thanks mate!

Wonder what shipping would be from Denver to NSW Australia?!?🤣🤣🤣
 
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Brooothru

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Probably quite pricey, I'd say, especially if properly chilled for transport. Unfortunately I no longer fly internationally or else I might be inclined to stash some in my flight kit to save you the shipping! After all, anything to broaden the international fellowship of the brew. 🇦🇺 🍻 🇺🇸
 

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For anyone interested I found some Wyeast 2105-PC at altitudebrewing.com in Denver, CO. I've never ordered anything from them, but they do have a wide selection of brewing paraphernalia. Prices seemed a tad high, but not out of reason.

One thing they do carry is a yeast brand that I'm not familiar with called Propagate Lab. I get the feeling their main customer might be commercial breweries, but they have a very detailed downloadable .pdf cross-referencing their yeasts with other common yeasts, along with the supposed origins. According to their chart, there are actually (at least) three Chico variants, two of which are allegedly common to Sierra Nevada and one common to Stone. That seems to support the spreadsheet data that D.M. Taylor compiled from numerous sources.

Anyway, the chart is worth perusing even if their yeasts don't interest you, but they claim to have 2x the cell count of Imperial and 4x Wyeast, for $12. Worth a look-see.
It looks like Wyeast 2105-PC was last released in the winter of 2020. Probably still good but seem like it may be past the recommended use by date.

I am a Lager X user, will be interested to hear how you feel the two compare incase I lose my lager X.
 
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It looks like Wyeast 2105-PC was last released in the winter of 2020. Probably still good but seem like it may be past the recommended use by date.

I am a Lager X user, will be interested to hear how you feel the two compare incase I lose my lager X.
I've got 2 vials of WLP835 Lager X, an out of date WLP838 that is currently on the stir plate In the 2nd step, and an 833 on order. In addition there's about 300 ml dense 2105-PC slurry that got harvested 4 months ago that's still viable for a starter.

I've been pretty busy lately (for a retired guy) but should be in a position in a few weeks to start brewing in earnest. Right now I'm trying to plan the line up with pils, Helles, Bock and Vienna in mind. Got all the grains, now I've got to decide which of 4 yeasts to use in the 4 different brews. Just about any one yeast would work with any or all of the planned beers.

Then there's still that Kolsch I've been waiting to brew since November. The WLP029 for that one is right at its "Best Used By" date. Yeah, I know. First World problems.

Brooo Brother
 

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The BSI Andechs that I got from a local brewery is just about done. Got great attenuation and smells/tastes great at only 9 day post pitch. Going to start cooling tomorrow. I split this batch and did Andechs in one and 60/40 Andechs/Global in the other. Very interested to see how they compare. Both are done and hit similar gravity.

I will say the BSI Andechs is more “Coors-like” than the WL version. No isoamyle acetate but the gravity sample I tasted today just somehow resembled Coors and I’m not sure how exactly.
 
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So your 60/40 Andechs/Global was the BSI Andechs + Weihenstephan (L17/WLP830/34/70)? That actually sounds like a pretty nice yeast blend. That's great that you were able to get a sample of the BSI Andechs to try. The only retail homebrew versions of Andechs I've seen are the WLP-835X and supposedly Wyeast 2105-PC, though the Altitude Brewing website I found the other day carries a brand of yeast called Propagate Labs that markets an Andechs lager strain for home brewers. I'm not familiar with the brand, other than they're Colorado-based in Golden (Coors.... Coincidence?). Here's a link: www.propagatelab.com/ The specific strain is "MIP-620 Andechs Lager".
 

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I've been pitching at 46 and fermenting at 50. At 1.020 I'll let it go to 54. That's the only fermentation
curve I've seen recommended for this yeast. KC Bier Co in Kansas City, who makes fantastic true to type German lagers is who recommended this as I guess it's what they do. I don't think this yeast is as good cold as 34/70. It seems to do a little better a touch warmer. I'll usually hit terminal in 6-7 days with this schedule. Leave it for 2 more days then slowly cool 3* F per day to 39 where I'll leave it for 7 days then continue to 30 or transfer to a keg and krausen.
Wow, I’m a big fan, my lager has been kegged 2 days, with a 30hr carbonation. Silky smooth with a very slight and very pleasant sulphur character. I’m trying to leave some for next weekend for a catch up with beer loving friends but hmmmm!
 
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