Wyeast 1007 in a sour

[Crysalis]

Hello All!

This past weekend I did my kettle first sour (well technically a second but fermentation never took off and forgot about the 2gal batch in my garage over the summer - oops!). It is supposed to be a tart cherry sour. Picked up a couple bottles of the RW Knudson's tart cherry concentrate (puree has been hard to come by).

Near but not quite a 50/50 of Wheat and 2-row. BIAB on my stove with an og of about 1.068 - 1.070 with six gallons of wort and six capsules of Swansons L. Plantarum @ 90*-92*F, dropping it to 89* around noon on Saturday. Dropped to 88*F in the evening just because the kettle kept losing too much heat from the wrap and didn't want the wrap to run continuously overnight. Pre-acidified to about 4.4. Dropped to 3.1-3.2 (kept getting varying numbers between that range) overnight. Boiled with 1/4oz Saaz for about 15 minutes. Parallel to pre-souring, I did about a 3.5l starter of 1007 going (used Mr. Malty and chose the Hybrid option knowing more yeast was needed with the acidity). I did not step the starter up (I should have, I know but frankly, wasn't willing to risk waiting days before I could finish this brew, especially after seeing the ph go so low within 18 hours) and just did the full 3.5l at once. Oxygenated with an entire canister of 02 from HD (I do this with all my beers), chilled, decanted, and ended up pitching about .5l-.8l of it at about 56*-57*F. This was about ~noonish on Sunday. Temps stayed in the high 50's, hitting 60.x a few times.

By Monday morning, there was activity. By Monday night, a nice but small Krausen. As of last night, I noticed activity slowing down considerably, but the Krausen not dropping. Since I wasn't going to use my only Tilt hydro for a sour to see if fermentation is stabilized/close enough to being on the tail end (will eventually buy a second to dedicate to sours), I took a hydrometer sample and was kind of glad I did. So my og as stated above was 1.068-1.070 due to a defect and not focusing properly enough (that I think i caused) on the refractometer scale so instead of pinpointing at that point, I am left with the three point range and I go with the conservative option. So my hydrometer sample, after degassing, was at about 1.019-1.020. I was really surprised to essentially see it that low within 55ish hours after pitching. That is about 69% attenuation going off the og of 1.068. I went ahead and poured (as gently as I could but did make a couple splashing mistakes) the cherry concentrate into the fermenter and within 30 minutes I saw bubble activity rapidly increase again. Bumped the temp up to 60 and will continue the slow climb to the mid 60's or so to finish fermentation/clean-up.

So...uh, is this a normal rate for the yeast or was my starter/02 process just more adequate to facilitate this acceleration? Even in a sour? Was it maybe an over pitch? Mr. malty called for something like 355 billion cells if irc. I have had other beers take twice as long to get to that point (with similar starters/02 processes) with 05/1056 take an entire week just to get close to that point. The hydro sample was pretty darn good. Deliciously tart. Had some of the concentrate left over in the jar and mixed it with the hydro sample just to get a feel of what to expect. I was pleasantly surprised and hopeful! I am thinking of harvesting this yeast for some further sour cherry batches as I really enjoy this yeast thus far!

 

[couchsending]

You used a whole canister of O2 from Home Depot in one beer? 6 gallons?

 

[Jayjay1976]

How careful were you with the cell count? Me personally, after using up all my fingers and toes, I like to use empty egg cartons to separate them into tidy little piles. Easier to keep track of that way. 355 billion seems like a lot, like you def gonna need like a few more egg cartons. Maybe eight even.

 

[Crysalis]

You used a whole canister of O2 from Home Depot in one beer? 6 gallons?

Yes. It’s usually a 60-90 second hit for me. Or until the foam becomes too much. Either or.

 

[Crysalis]

How careful were you with the cell count? Me personally, after using up all my fingers and toes, I like to use empty egg cartons to separate them into tidy little piles. Easier to keep track of that way. 355 billion seems like a lot, like you def gonna need like a few more egg cartons. Maybe eight even.

I’m assuming this is in regards to the harvesting?

I’m not confident in the numbers. Like I said I used mr. malty (I know there’s others). Hybrid and monthish old yeast (wyeast has changed their manufacturing date so I estimated based on a six month timeframe). Starter sat on the stir plate for 18-20 hours.

Took my second sample tonight at 1.018. I’m assuming it’s done but will do one more by the end of the weekend to ensure. Otherwise it kinda tasted like I was expecting. Deliciously tart. Cherry on the back end. Not as much mouthfeel. Will wait and see once it’s cold and carved. But as a first generation recipe, I’ve got a couple ideas to test in future iterations.

 

[couchsending]

Yes. It’s usually a 60-90 second hit for me. Or until the foam becomes too much. Either or.

somethings not right here

Using a .5 micron stone with a flow rate of .5L/min for 2-3 minutes I can get probably 20+ uses out of one of those red o2 canisters from HD. (6 gallons of wort) I’ve measured the DO content of the wort as well and that usually gets me to the desired amount.

If you are using one canister per batch I don’t even know what o2 levels you’d be hitting. Way way way too much.

 

[Crysalis]

somethings not right here

Using a .5 micron stone with a flow rate of .5L/min for 2-3 minutes I can get probably 20+ uses out of one of those red o2 canisters from HD. (6 gallons of wort) I’ve measured the DO content of the wort as well and that usually gets me to the desired amount.

If you are using one canister per batch I don’t even know what o2 levels you’d be hitting. Way way way too much.

I’ll admit, I’ve only been brewing for a few years but I was under the impression you couldn’t have too much O2 at pitching? Hasn’t seemed to be an issue in previous brews.

 

[couchsending]

I’ll admit, I’ve only been brewing for a few years but I was under the impression you couldn’t have too much O2 at pitching? Hasn’t seemed to be an issue in previous brews.

using pure o2 you definitely can over oxygenate causing all sorts of issues, namely excessive yeast growth which can cause increased fusel alcohol production and other issues associated with excessive growth.

Regardless you’ll safe yourself a bunch of money in the long run by not burning through a whole canister in one beer.