Would you expect any bubbles if you accidentally used a cider with sorbates/benzoates?

[brewedisland]

Three days ago, I started brewing my first cider, which is also my first ever home brew. Within the first day, a big foamy head appeared, which has since subsided. Currently, I do see some tiny bubbles streaming up the sides of the carboy, and I've seen a few of similar size in the airlock, but I've yet to see any real airlock "belching" as I expected and have seen in videos.

I'm using M02 yeast and a gallon of fresh sweet cider from a local orchard. The cider was unpasteurized, but says nothing about whether any preservatives were used. I've since learned about sorbates and benzoates from this forum, and I wonder if that might be a factor in my brew. I called the orchard and left a message asking if they use these, but haven't heard back yet.

Assuming they may never call back, I wonder if I'm wasting my time on this brew. Is the foam + bubbles a sign that I lucked out? Or is the lack of airlock belching a sign that this isn't going to work out well?

 

[DBhomebrew]

What you describe sounds like a healthy, quick fermentation. Don't judge by visual clues, don't compare to another's fermentation. Judge with a hydrometer or refractometer.

 

[z-bob]

It sounds fine to me. That doesn't mean it *doesnt* have preservatives, it means you pitched enough yeast. If it has preservatives the fermentation will probably stall before it's finished -- but the cider might be good like that. Let it go and see what you get. If it stops and it's still too sweet, maybe rehydrate a packet of champagne yeast in warm water and add that to maybe get it over the finish line.

There also might be no problem at all. Don't go looking for one yet

 

[bracconiere]

if you got your juice fresh from an orchard, i'd be almost totally sure it had sorbate or something in it....but that just means you need to pitch more yeast...i just pitched 1 cup of yeast into strait sugar water, same goes for sorbate juice, but not that extreme, i used to ferment juice with sorbate, just gotta pitch like 4-5 packs of yeast to it, it'll ferment...

 

[Cider Wraith]

Within the first day, a big foamy head appeared, which has since subsided. Currently, I do see some tiny bubbles streaming up the sides of the carboy

You added a whole packet of M02 to a gallon of fresh juice everything seemed to be going well - sounds good

 

[Cider Wraith]

The cider was unpasteurized, but says nothing about whether any preservatives were used

Seems common to have witnessed local orchards picking apples in the morning that they're putting in presses at noon and selling juice to the tourists as it comes out and saying, "Now you understand this won't be good for more then a day or two in the fridge" Might be liquid gold

 

[Cider Wraith]

Or is the lack of airlock belching a sign that this isn't going to work out well?

What size is the carboy?

 

[brewedisland]

You added a whole packet of M02 to a gallon of fresh juice and it launched? Sounds good to me. You're probably on your way to a gallon of good hard cider. Good luck

Sorry, I should have mentioned the amount. I used about a half packet. Thanks!

Seems common to have witnessed local orchards picking apples in the morning that they're putting in presses at noon and selling juice to the tourists as it comes out and saying, "Now you understand this won't be good for more then a day or two in the fridge" Might be liquid gold

They said it would last about 2 weeks in the fridge. There's another local place that specifically says "no preservatives". I'll drop by sometime and pick up a gallon of that to compare.

What size is the carboy? I might wildly guess that your batch launched and accelerated so quickly with M02 you blew out the liquid from your air lock and after that with only one single gallon there was enough headspace to buffer residual C02 production

The carboy is 1 gallon. It's pretty full with the cider. The airlock still has fluid in it.

Here's how it currently looks:

 

[brewedisland]

What you describe sounds like a healthy, quick fermentation. Don't judge by visual clues, don't compare to another's fermentation. Judge with a hydrometer or refractometer.

Thanks. I'll take a hydrometer measurement at the 1 week mark.

It sounds fine to me. That doesn't mean it *doesnt* have preservatives, it means you pitched enough yeast. If it has preservatives the fermentation will probably stall before it's finished -- but the cider might be good like that. Let it go and see what you get. If it stops and it's still too sweet, maybe rehydrate a packet of champagne yeast in warm water and add that to maybe get it over the finish line.

There also might be no problem at all. Don't go looking for one yet

Thanks. Good advice, but hard to follow!

if you got your juice fresh from an orchard, i'd be almost totally sure it had sorbate or something in it....but that just means you need to pitch more yeast...i just pitched 1 cup of yeast into strait sugar water, same goes for sorbate juice, but not that extreme, i used to ferment juice with sorbate, just gotta pitch like 4-5 packs of yeast to it, it'll ferment...

I don't know if I want to use 5 packets just to find out whether this is going to work, but I'll consider adding the other half of the packet when I take my 1-week reading. Thanks.

 

[Cider Wraith]

Sounds like you're looking good ...

 

[DBhomebrew]

My experience with those jugs is that the stopper won't stay in. Sometimes clearly an air leak. Push it down, tape it up.

 

[z-bob]

Thanks. Good advice, but hard to follow!

Hard to understand, or hard to leave it alone and stop worrying?

 

[Cider Wraith]

Hard to understand, or hard to leave it alone and stop worrying?

This ^

 

[brewedisland]

Hard to understand, or hard to leave it alone and stop worrying?

The latter

 

[brewedisland]

My experience with those jugs is that the stopper won't stay in. Sometimes clearly an air leak. Push it down, tape it up.

Thanks, I was wondering whether it was in far enough. When I push any further, it eventually works its way back up. I'll try taping it. For the future, do you recommend another kind of vessel/topper?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Haven't found one yet.

 

[Cider Wraith]

Maybe consider some carboys

 

[brewedisland]

You are on the money ... now I can tell you, that is going to be wonderful, with the exception that to get it really right you need to get it carbonated ... and that's another animal ... do you have plans for that? ......but you're looking great so-far ...

I was thinking about repeating this experiment:

 

[Cider Wraith]

I was thinking about repeating this experiment:

Watched this for about 5 min ....get the general idea ... my thought is to keep on the path you're on, humble opinion is, you'll get there .... cider almost always comes out well - Good luck

 

[z-bob]

Sorry, I should have mentioned the amount. I used about a half packet. Thanks!

They said it would last about 2 weeks in the fridge. There's another local place that specifically says "no preservatives". I'll drop by sometime and pick up a gallon of that to compare.

The carboy is 1 gallon. It's pretty full with the cider. The airlock still has fluid in it.

Here's how it currently looks:

View attachment 784050

That looks good to me. Your stopper may be 1/2 size too large.

 

[brewedisland]

My experience with those jugs is that the stopper won't stay in. Sometimes clearly an air leak. Push it down, tape it up.

It took every rubber band in the junk drawer, but now I'm finally seeing the airlock bubbles I was expecting! I feel much more confident that it's working now.

I may skip the gravity reading I was planning for the one-week mark if it's still zooming like this.

That looks good to me. Your stopper may be 1/2 size too large.

Perhaps. I bought them together as a kit from North Mountain Supply, so I assumed they were correctly matched, but it does seem to me like the stopper is too large.

 

[Cider Wraith]

I may skip the gravity reading I was planning for the one-week mark if it's still zooming like this.

I rarely do readings

 

[TheBluePhantom]

The color says lots of active yeast. very good. Those stoppers will work, but you have to get them dry, any liquid and they are too slick.

Bracconieres comment about 4 to 5 packs is probably off a bit because most of us do 5 to 10 gallon batches, he is probsbly assuming that size. I personally have 10 gallons going right now.

 

[brewedisland]

I never do gravity readings, what difference would it make? If it's good it's good. Ciders are super simple and basically almost always come out well (don't tell the others I said that, )

I was going to do one to see if fermentation was even happening. Putting rubber bands on the bung/airlock solved that mystery for me.

I'll still take a reading when I re-rack for my curiosity's sake. From what I've heard/read, I should also take a measurement before I bottle it, to make sure any further fermentation won't cause the bottles to explode. Even if that's unlikely, I've got the equipment and I like to quantify what's happening, so I'm sure I'll go for it then as well. But no need to let air in while I can now see the yeast is clearly doing work.

The color says lots of active yeast. very good. Those stoppers will work, but you have to get them dry, any liquid and they are too slick.

Bracconieres comment about 4 to 5 packs is probably off a bit because most of us do 5 to 10 gallon batches, he is probsbly assuming that size. I personally have 10 gallons going right now.

Thanks for the tip... I think I put the stopper on directly after soaking it in water and StarSan, so there would have been a good amount of moisture.

The 4-5 packets makes a lot more sense in that context. It looks like 5 packets of M02 would cost over $20 on Amazon, which is a lot for one gallon of cider . I look forward to making larger batches after I've done a few more small tests.

 

[Cider Wraith]

I look forward to making larger batches after I've done a few more small tests.

Cider is the incredible, wonderful beverage that makes itself

 

[brewedisland]

Please report findings -

Thank you. I will. I know people who would disagree that it always works out, but time will tell how it goes for me. It would be lovely if I proved them wrong

 

[Chalkyt]

As others say... it all looks and sounds O.K. but my comments are a bit late. I have just returned from a trip around Tasmania (our Oz island state,known as the apple isle, and brought back lots of different cider... yum, yum, yum).

However that isn't the point of the post. I also have problems with that white type of plastic cork coming out of the carboy under pressure, they don't really stay in place. The answer is to get a proper old fashioned rubber one.

Cheers!

 

[bwible]

Thanks, I was wondering whether it was in far enough. When I push any further, it eventually works its way back up. I'll try taping it. For the future, do you recommend another kind of vessel/topper?

Northern Brewer sells what they call a “little big mouth bubbler.” Its 1.5 gallon size I think to allow space for fermenting 1 gallon batches

 

[TheBluePhantom]

Thank you. I will. I know people who would disagree that it always works out, but time will tell how it goes for me. It would be lovely if I proved them wrong

Yeah, I am going to have to disagree as well, I got cider from an orchard a few years ago. It fermented well, cleared to crystal, not a single thing went wrong. When it was freshly pressed the flavor was fantastic. Aged it out and it was terrible. The color was a pale green, very little flavor. Not sure if it ws the apple variety, if they were harvfesting them way too early or what, but it was not worth drinking. I tried boosting the flavor with frozen, but by the time I got flavor that way, it was too sweet and the alcohol was below 3%. There was a little sulpher problem, but the green color tells me something else was wrong.

 

[brewedisland]

Well, this first batch was a success! Thanks for the guidance.

I did pursue the "Hard Cider Four Ways" experiment from the video I linked earlier: four 750ml bottles from my gallon of cider. 1 still + dry, 1 still + sweet, 1 carbonated + dry, 1 carbonated + sweet. I knowingly pasteurized them before carbonation was complete, so that I could serve them at a party last night. In hindsight, I don't think pasteurization a few hours before opening the bottles was necessary.

I thought all four were great, and the differences were noticeable, but I look forward to a future batch with heavier carbonation. I have another 1-gallon batch in progress that I started when I moved this one to secondary. Now that I've had the cider, I think I'll invest in the gear for 5-gallon batches.

 

[TheBluePhantom]

Congratulations guys, we got another one hooked!