Would anyone buy the Robobrew over the Brewer's Edge Mash & Boil?

[sideshow_ben]

I've seen a lot of talk about these two systems, and read some really excellent reviews (like Brad at beersnobby.com, here and here). For the time being, let's ignore that the Robobrew comes with an immersion chiller and has an option for a pump*. In terms of the basic functionality, my readings suggest the Mash & Boil may be preferable since it is double-walled stainless with more robust welds. While the Robobrew is single-walled, it has extra false bottoms to help catch crud from scorching on the bottom and shutting the system down.

Has anyone played with both units, and could you share your preference? Please note: I'm not looking for reviews of just one unit--there are plenty of those out there.

*I already have a pump and plate chiller, which is why I'm ignoring them.

 

[Rev2010]

Haven't tried either, but going by the title of your post I figured I'd reply. Currently I'm planning on going with the Robobrew v3 and the reasoning is primarily due to slightly more kettle volume and the recirculating pump. The kettle volume I care about mostly for headspace and boil over prevention. I use a cold water spray bottle to combat any foam up but the more room the easier the foaming is to manage. The pump advantage is self explanatory really. Double walled would certainly be nicer but I am planning to use a layer of Relfectix in addition to the Robobrew jacket (which is about $20). Figuring that should more than suffice to maintain temps and help aide in a good stable rolling boil. The price difference is $180 so to me the advantages are worth it, and yeah it comes with the chiller though I'd much prefer copper. Sorry if responding to this isn't very helpful. Hopefully someone who's tried both can weigh in.


Rev.

 

[Lucky Cat Brew]

I've had the same question for a while. The only thing I see is a price variance between the two and it sounds like both still need a sparge water heater.

 

[bpgreen]

I've got the Mash and Boil (M&B) and have never used the RoboBrew3 (RB3), so I may be a bit biased, but I'll try to answer as objectively as I can.

The RB3 includes a recirculating pump, which can improve efficiency. It also includes a chiller, so if you don't have one, that's a plus. It has 2 heating elements: 1 with 1000 watts and one with 500 watts.

The M&B doesn't include a recirculating pump or a chiller. If you don't have a chiller, raise your hand (that's what I thought). The M&B is also slightly more powerful (1600 vs 1500 watts). There are pumps available for around $25 that will recirculate the wort. And there's a guy (Tyler Brower) who sells a modification to add the drain pipe the RB3 has.

In my opinion, if you don't have any existing equipment and you don't want to make any modifications on your own, go with the RB3. The RB3 also has a larger capacity, so if you want to bigger malt bills without doing multiple mashes, that might be your best bet.

But if you're budget conscious and/or already have a chiller and/or are willing to do some modifications, the M&B is the better choice.

 

[plano_harry]

Few people have both to make a valid comparison, but I went through the decision process and decided to go with the Mash & Boil. One factor was the fb groups on each. The BEMB guys seem to be much happier with the quality of their units -- lots of quality issues and early failure issues on the Robo groups.

The double walled kettle and 1600 watts was a plus. The volume was not an issue - small difference and several easy ways around that on the occasion of large grain bills.

Sparge water was not an issue as you can easily heat extra water to draw off for sparge into a cooler before mashing on either unit, or use a heat stick or stove -- further, the debate over sparge water temperature is not definitively decided anyway, although I do use heated.

The part that can't be replaced on either unit is the heating elements and the BEMB certainly has a 2x price advantage there.

My plan was to use the BEMB as a canvas for a better all-in-one. Adding a center mashpipe overflow. Adding a better pump with whirlpool recirculation during IC cooling which neither GF or RoboV3 have. Finally, adding a bluetooth smart controller like the GF -- which the Robo doesn't have. I didn't want to be dependent on the factory to get me the improvements someday that I could do myself today. Cost is going to be comparable to the RoboV3 and functionality should be better than GF at a much lower cost.

None of these enhancements are necessary as the BEMB makes great beer in manual configuration but it is nice to have a great base that can be easily modded without throwing away expensive compoonents. And if the heater elements fail after warranty, all the enhancements can be moved to the replacement platform at a much smaller cost.

If those things aren't important to you, you might as well flip a coin. Both have equal chances. Good luck with your decision.

 

[augiedoggy]

This food grade high temp pump would solve the pump issue... Its very likely a better pump than the one built in the robobrew..
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G305PK0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Ive also read the chiller that comes with it isnt all that great so rather than buying it and shelving it after you buy something better you might want to just consider buying something better..

I was browsing alibaba for these and had 2 supplers start messaging me after they somehow recorded my browsing history (got to love the whole lack of privacy) anyway... The factory that makes the mash and boil quoted me $78 for the unit which I believe came without the accessories.

a quick search pulls up lots of options, you have to message them about 120v options though.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.146.6cc07a60jYsCKi

EDIT from the looks of it the robobrew uses the same pump as anvil rebrands and sells.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.324.6cc07a60jYsCKi

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.333.6cc07a60jYsCKi

 

[Boomer]

@augiedoggy Can you elaborate on what you read about the chiller not being all that great on the Robobrew? I ask because I have one and haven’t experienced any problems and would be interested in hearing what problems people are mentioning.

Thanks

 

[augiedoggy]

@augiedoggy Can you elaborate on what you read about the chiller not being all that great on the Robobrew? I ask because I have one and haven’t experienced any problems and would be interested in hearing what problems people are mentioning.

Thanks

Well in a couple of the umpteen robobrew vs mash and boil (and grainfather) threads that have popped up here people have mentioned that the included ic chiller is not all that effective compared to what they already had so they ended up using their old chillers instead. (Ive also seen numerous complaints of the pumps failing and sticking but dont remember which model)
Is the robobrew chiller comparable to a 50ft coiled IC chiller or would you say its more comparable to the 25ft models? I dont own one so im going by what I read from others here.

Have you ever used a 50ft IC chiller? or a CFC or plate chiller? What are you comparing the performance of your robobrew chiller too? its really all relative to the owners experience with other equipment I guess.

 

[Boomer]

I was under the impression that the included chiller was a 50’ SS chiller. Regardless, if I’m running tap water through it and pumping at the same time, I go from boil to pitch temp in a matter of minutes.

I was in the position where I’d stopped brewing for a while and had gotten rid of all of my equipment so it was an added perk.

While I’m positive there are better brewing systems out there, I’m satisfied with my Robobrew and have yet to run into any problems. It’s worth mentioning that I did pay for the neoprene wrap for it since I live in Montana and it can get a little chilly.

 

[Lucky Cat Brew]

All notable items. I'll have to think on this as I do have a Chugger pump and also a Blichmann plate chiller already. I was considering selling both plus my Hop Rocket to go towards the new system.

The thing with the Blichmann is that it tends to leak cold water sometimes, might be an easy fix with the fittings, but I do plan on brewing strictly indoors which is why I'm switching to electric.

 

[noiz2]

Well I went back and forth between the two. I have a all grain system and fairly regularly do double five gallon brews. It's a long story but I essentially ended up with two full systems with a shared HLT. But it's gas and I brew in the basement. I have an exhaust system so it's fine when the weather is not crazy frozen outside. BUT in the winter one hates to open the vent and it's a bear to clean the mash tuns. When it's nice I haul them upstairs and back to the compost, but they weigh a bit and hauling them through the snow... Plus I would normally hose them out, also not possible in winter. Doing this all in a laundry sink sucks. So BIAB and or extract would be good, electric would be better. And I wanted an "easy" way to do smaller test batches.

I ended up getting the RoboBrew V3 with out the pump. The reason was volume and software/ maturity. Mash and boil is too small to conveniently do 5 gal all grain. Not that you can't but I just know from experience that I have never regretted having a bigger pot. All of the 210V systems are a bit under powered as shipped. Robo will get to a rolling boil, but not a very vigorous one. M&B should be slightly better out of the box, but not a lot. The V3 Robo with out a pump I found on Amazon for less than $20 more than the M&B. I have a pump so I didn't need one. Both systems use the same spout (which I replaced). It fits a 1/2" NPT hole but the internal valve is ?1/4", maybe 3/8", either way it's a lot less flow than a 1/2" valve. Also it doesn't end in a pipe fitting. If you want to use it as is with some tubing connected to the hose barb it has it's fine, but I wanted a camlock on it and a full 1/2" so the pump wouldn't be starved. The Robo has a thermal cover you can get for ~$20 that should get you to about the same place as the M&B. An advantage of single walled is that I can add a bulkhead heating element. There is a 1,500W 120V one from MoreBeer for ? $35 or so. That would have to be plugged in on another circuit and it would not be under control so it's only really good for heating phases where you are present and can switch it off, but that would cut time to boil down a lot.
Robo has better software, not a huge deal but a bit more automation. And it's controller is a bit more secured from liquids.

That is about it for differences. Functionally they are pretty similar. With the Robo you could do a full 5 gal BIAB, since it can hold enough liquid. M&B you will have to top up/ sparge to get up to a 5 gal batch. Not a huge deal but...

So after brewing with it I can say, wow. Easiest brewday I have ever had. I made dinned while it heated mash water. We ate while it mashed. I did do a sparge since I was using the malt pipe with out a bag. I of course had to watch for the boil so as not to have a boilover, but then I could go do other things while it boiled. I used my IC since it's plumbed and easy, I also was recirculating with the pump and it all chilled down pretty fast.

BTW the chiller that comes with it is 25' of 3/8 stainless. It's probably OK but I like mine so I'll have to figure out what to do with the SS one.

The malt pipe (in mine anyway) did not have the silly tube up the center. It drained before I got to a boil and I hauled it to the sink and quite easily dumped all the grain into a 5gal bucket and the whole thing was washed and drying before the boil.

After I got it all in the fermentor I cleaned in place with PBW and a rinse and and was done in maybe 1/2 hr.

I would highly recommend either as a super smooth brewdday.

 

[Dancy]

I was browsing alibaba for these and had 2 supplers start messaging me after they somehow recorded my browsing history (got to love the whole lack of privacy) anyway... The factory that makes the mash and boil quoted me $78 for the unit which I believe came without the accessories.”


Did you have any luck with the Alibaba inquiry? It appears if you want to purchase a single unit, you must go through aliexpress.com, which is not a business to business site. However, the price with shipping is $547 while the unit itself (V3 with pump) is $279.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ROBOBREW-35L-GEN-3-0-HOME-BREW-ALL-IN-ONE/1850830_32858941677.html?

 

[augiedoggy]

you can purchase "samples directly from suppliers at alibaba.. Ive done it many times, I bought my 3bbl brew system that way from the manufacturer that makes them for a large US company... cost me $7300 out the door with shipping and customs.... thousands less than through the US retailer for the same stuff.

also bought my 5500w tri clamp nema outlet based elements there for $14 each vs $75 (now available elsewhere for $50) The markups on some of this stuff is really large.

 

[Mirilis]

I just ordered a v3 Robobrew no pump because it was on sale at more beer for $275 with free shipping. I grabbed the neoprene jacket for another $19.

I'll use my Exchillerator and Riptide pump with it from my old system that sees little use these days. My hope is that this will allow me more versatile in kitchen brewing when swmbo isn't around.

 

[noiz2]

Very nice! Sorry I missed that deal. It should work well in "kitchen" brewing. In theory you can have a boil over but? It gets to such a gentle boil it is certainly not as likely. One "catch" is that you need to lift the malt pipe and that might be tricky if it's on a counter. THough a stepstool would help. I have mine on a milk crate screwed to a dolly, high enough to be able to read the display without laying on the ground and a good lift height. I did a cut out ring of plywood so it's semi captive.

 

[jakturner]

I’m trying to decide on RB with pump or BE with a cheap “tan”pump. Can anyone with the robobrew tell me, can you wirlpool with lots of flame out hops? IE does the false bottom keep the hops out of the pump? Thanks

 

[Rev2010]

IE does the false bottom keep the hops out of the pump? Thanks

Yes, it does a very good job keeping hops out of the pump and fermenter.


Rev.

 

[jakturner]

Yes, it does a very good job keeping hops out of the pump and fermenter.


Rev.

Awesome thanks!
One last question, I plan on using all my water in the mash with no sparge and running the pump the whole time to recirculate. Has anyone done this? What kind of efficiency are you getting? How much heat is lost recirculating through that arm and does the element keep up with it with the 6-7 degree swing?

 

[Jag75]

My brother n law and I are trying to decide which one to get. I've heard that the M&B is coming out with a new version that has a pump and chiller.

 

[Rev2010]

Awesome thanks!
One last question, I plan on using all my water in the mash with no sparge and running the pump the whole time to recirculate. Has anyone done this? What kind of efficiency are you getting? How much heat is lost recirculating through that arm and does the element keep up with it with the 6-7 degree swing?

Sorry, only saw this now. Not sure if this would work due to volume. I mean, if you're doing a 5 gallon batch usually your starting water is 7 or more gallons. That plus grain would overfill the units - unless I'm missing something. In regard to efficiency, I lost about 5 points from using my last setup which was a Rubbermaid cooler with bazooka tube and a kettle on a Blichmann propane burner outdoors. I would mash indoors then carefully transport the kettle outside and begin the boil. This difference is primarily due to boil off and fly sparging as opposed to batch sparging. When using the propane burner I would boil off 1.5 gallons per hour on average. With the Robobrew it's a mere half gallon per hour. So, I have one less gallon to sparge with.


Rev.

 

[Conehead]

I only brewed once with my V3 RoboBrew. The second brew never started. Temp probe malfunction. HB store sending me a new probe and a new circuit board.

 

[Jag75]

It seems like most that have the M&B mod it to the likes of Robobrew . I'm really conflicted on which one is a better investment.

 

[jakturner]

It seems like most that have the M&B mod it to the likes of Robobrew . I'm really conflicted on which one is a better investment.

Me too, but I like to Whirlpool with lots of free hops. The robo has that screen on the bottom to keep it out of the pump, I think that has swung me to the robobrew side

 

[Jag75]

Just pulled the trigger on a Grainfather

 

[verboten]

I had this same dilemma, and after 20% off on eBay I decided robobrew was the way to go. It’s very convenient, easy to clean and works as expected so far

 

[Mirilis]

Used mine for the first time this weekend with no problems.. did what I needed it to.

 

[vwluv10338]

I had this same dilemma, and after 20% off on eBay I decided robobrew was the way to go. It’s very convenient, easy to clean and works as expected so far

That's what I did but I used the 20% on a M&B then added the $20 Amazon pump

 

[micraftbeer]

I see this is kind of a dead thread, but I stumbled across it today. I've used both of these units for several brews. I did the reviews referenced by the OP. Here's how I'd boil it down:

M&B is superior build quality for sure, and has a better price, even when you add in a pump.

The Robobrew V2 is what I reviewed. I had issues with a silicone seal on the recirc tube (tore pretty quickly), but I see they eliminated that on V3. My control board died on me after about 7 batches, and I couldn't get a replacement. When I contacted the team in Australia, they seemed to be familiar with the issue, so maybe that would mean hopefully they addressed that in V3? The controller worked amazing on the Robobrew and did a phenomennal job of holding a rock steady temperature during the mash, which gave me huge confidence when brewing with it.

 

[verboten]

I see this is kind of a dead thread, but I stumbled across it today. I've used both of these units for several brews. I did the reviews referenced by the OP. Here's how I'd boil it down:

M&B is superior build quality for sure, and has a better price, even when you add in a pump.

The Robobrew V2 is what I reviewed. I had issues with a silicone seal on the recirc tube (tore pretty quickly), but I see they eliminated that on V3. My control board died on me after about 7 batches, and I couldn't get a replacement. When I contacted the team in Australia, they seemed to be familiar with the issue, so maybe that would mean hopefully they addressed that in V3? The controller worked amazing on the Robobrew and did a phenomennal job of holding a rock steady temperature during the mash, which gave me huge confidence when brewing with it.

Hello from another Michigan Brewer! [emoji482]

 

[noiz2]

Well...

Iv'e done a few brews so far in the RoboBrew no pump V3. First off I have brewed a long time with my main system and that is probably a disadvantage because the workflow is not the same. So far I haven't gotten the same efficiency from the RB as I get from the main system but not a big deal. The biggest issue is figuring out how to adapt my recipes.

The cheapie solar heating pump that is like $25 on Amazon is "OK" but like the the small pump in the pump V3 it can easily clog. The issue is that though it has 1/2" fittings internally it's more like 1/4". BTW the same is true for the valve that comes with the RB. So if you can stick a decent screen on the input you are probably OK and if not you may have to jigger it a bit if it clogs. My solution is that I put a full sized 1/2" valve on it and CamLok fittings and use my chugger pump. I did do one brew with the "brown" pump and it got semi clogged. It was easy to clear but I have the chugger so why waste time? There is a "jacket" for the Robo that was highly recommended and I have always used it. I suspect that it makes it about as stable as the double walled M&B but?

The boil is not as vigorous as my 220,000 BTU propane system, but that was expected. An option is a second heating element that would add another 1500W. Easy to install and only about $35, but it would need to be on a second circuit.

My biggest issue has been that the screen at the bottom of the "malt tube" gets clogged a lot easier than the slotted false bottom I am used to that pretty much never clogs. I am going to try putting one on top of the screen and see if things improve. If so I will get a slotted false bottom to fit. I could probably adjust the crush but I don't want to have to change a lot going back and forth.

The other option is to use a bag and have it as a BIAB system. The only time it was a big deal was brewing an imperial stout where it semi stuck, normal gravity beers have drained a bit slow but OK. And these have all been no sparge or cold water sparge. Doing their hot sparge would requite opening the window and firing up the exhaust system. The things that I got the electric system to avoid in winter.

RB with out the pump was about $320, so in the same range as the M&B. The pluses I found were that it could do full volume boils, had a better controller could be used to distil, if they ever get around to passing the bloody bill, and the single wall was easier to modify if I needed to (as in adding the second element).

 

[noiz2]

Jeez three from the same area in a row!

If either of you wants to try out the RB drop me a line.

 

[augiedoggy]

Haven't tried either, but going by the title of your post I figured I'd reply. Currently I'm planning on going with the Robobrew v3 and the reasoning is primarily due to slightly more kettle volume and the recirculating pump. The kettle volume I care about mostly for headspace and boil over prevention. I use a cold water spray bottle to combat any foam up but the more room the easier the foaming is to manage. The pump advantage is self explanatory really. Double walled would certainly be nicer but I am planning to use a layer of Relfectix in addition to the Robobrew jacket (which is about $20). Figuring that should more than suffice to maintain temps and help aide in a good stable rolling boil. The price difference is $180 so to me the advantages are worth it, and yeah it comes with the chiller though I'd much prefer copper. Sorry if responding to this isn't very helpful. Hopefully someone who's tried both can weigh in.


Rev.

I dont think you even have to worry about a boilover on these since the boil is so weak it never reaches a rolling boil to begin with.

 

[Jag75]

I have the Grainfather. However if it was between the M&B or RB I'm going M&B. Just too many negs on the RB. With the new version of MB it should be interesting.

 

[Rev2010]

I dont think you even have to worry about a boilover on these since the boil is so weak it never reaches a rolling boil to begin with.

Well now that I own one and have used it on several brews yes, that is very true. It's actually kind of nice to not have to worry about boil overs but the boil off rate is too darn low. That's why I'm making the move to a heatstick with gas assist on stovetop, just waiting for my heatstick to arrive so I can test it with my current MegaPot. If all goes good I'm going to order a Spike v3 kettle (the Megapot is for my sparge water).


Rev.

 

[noiz2]

I dont think you even have to worry about a boilover on these since the boil is so weak it never reaches a rolling boil to begin with.

You do, or at least can, get a rolling boil. You are not going to get a crazy fierce rolling boil but I don't really want one anyway. And you can get a boil over. Probably less likely with RB since it has a larger capacity. You don't get the boil over from a fierce boil but when the boil is just starting because all the pre hot break gives you a lot of surface tension. Once you are into a serious boil you are past the hot break and the surface tension has dropped back to "normal".

It's actually kind of nice to not have to worry about boil overs but the boil off rate is too darn low.

I would say that is more personal opinion. In that you like a lot of boil off for some reason. Not saying your wrong but unless I'm trying to boil down for a higher ABV there is not a lot of reason for a lot of boil off. At least it's certainly not required to make good beer.
The point that I think you have there, and I agree, is that the workflow for these pots is not the same as for a propane system. You really need to play with things to get volumes to where you want them and then note what you need to change to keep things where you want them. But this is also true for any difference in the brewing system. A mash tun and BIAB won't produce identical results from the same recipe.

But it's a good point that if you really have a need to stick to whatever workflow you have been using then you probably need to stick with a system that is close to the one you are used to.

If you need a big boil off then you can add this (to the RB) by drilling one hole and get a crazy fierce boil, for $40.

 

[Rev2010]

I would say that is more personal opinion. In that you like a lot of boil off for some reason. Not saying your wrong but unless I'm trying to boil down for a higher ABV there is not a lot of reason for a lot of boil off.

There is a reason - such a low boil off means I have to use less sparge water since my preboil volume is a gallon, sometimes a little more, less than when I boiled on propane. Less sparge water means less efficiency. Granted I've only gone down 3-5 points but it still require adjustment when all my recipes are done around my older efficiency of 86% average. It's not the end of the world of course, but being I typically do double batch sparges I appreciate the extra sparge water volume.


Rev.

 

[SanPancho]

I was browsing alibaba for these and had 2 supplers start messaging me after they somehow recorded my browsing history (got to love the whole lack of privacy) anyway... The factory that makes the mash and boil quoted me $78 for the unit which I believe came without the accessories
i

You have the name of the vender?

 

[augiedoggy]

You have the name of the vender?

I will have to look throug and see if I still have the emails they sent me.

 

[SanPancho]

I will have to look throug and see if I still have the emails they sent me.

Coold. Might also want to get info on your 3bbl vendor. A friend whos a pretty good brewer in baja is ready to leave wheres hes at now and go out on his own. As always, cash is tight so im sure hed love a referral on nano system.

 

[augiedoggy]

Bought the kettles directly from Gavin at sungood.they are a sponsor on probrewer but yeah I can give him the email.