Wort Cooling with Ice

[BrewMeThatBeer]

Just wanted to let you all know about a very cool (no pun intended) method I used to cool my wort this past weekend. I had originally built a wort chiller, but after moving to a new place it turns out the faucet doesn't accept the fitting I had originally used.

Anyway, I froze a gallon of unopened distilled water and kept a gallon of distilled water in the fridge. When the wort was ready to be cooled I cut open the frozen water jug, extracted the block of ice, and dumped it in some starsan to sanitize the outside. I dropped the ice in the wort and stirred until melted. I then topped off the batch with the cool water from the fridge. It took no more than 10-15 minutes to drop the wort down to pitching temperature using this method.

I'll let you all know how to goes, but I'm assuming there was no infection from this method. It was a very quick and easy way to get to pitching temps.

What do you all think of this method? Think I'm playing with fire?

 

[JonK331]

That's basically how I used to do it before I had an immersion chiller. I always froze the gallon, then sanitized the outside and a razor blade, then cut the plastic off with the sanitized razor blade and put the ice right in. Works really well. I never had a problem. Waaaay less wasted water too.

I sometimes bought that expensive alhambra ice they have at BevMo and never had a problem with that either.

 

[ajosin]

I use a gallon of ice too, but have issues with over/undershooting the final temperature. It works sometimes, but not allways. There is a formula that can be useful that I have written in a different thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/cooling-wort-extract-brewing-262736/)

What is the volume of boiled wort and how hot was it when you added it to the ice?

 

[Grumpybumpy]

Why not just sanitize the outside of the jug and drop it in still sealed? I bet it would be a little slower, but you could yank it out when you're down to temp then reuse it on the next batch.

 

[BrewKnurd]

Why not just sanitize the outside of the jug and drop it in still sealed? I bet it would be a little slower, but you could yank it out when you're down to temp then reuse it on the next batch.

I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing it would be a lot slower. The ice that melts is going to form an insulating berrier between the wort and the water that's going to significantly slow down the heat transfer, I would think.

 

[BrewMeThatBeer]

@ajosin: I stuck it in a quick ice bath in my sink while I got the ice cut out of the jug. The wort was sitting almost exactly at 3 gallons. I threw the ice in around 190F and stirred until completed melted. I then topped off with refrigerated water and at that point it was almost exactly 75F

@grumpy: I could do that I suppose, I just liked using the ice as a water addition to my wort. Plus, like disc says, it would likely take longer as you're not mixing that melted ice in with the wort and it's forming an insulating barrier.

 

[Jsamp]

Water expands when frozen. I dont understand how you could do this without the plastic breaking on the jug.

 

[Esmitee]

I boil water and pour right into star San 'd
4 (1) qt , and 2 (1/2) gal ziplock bins with lids.
Then Freeze a few days before I brew. Just made a DFH clone last nite and got it down to 62 * in like 15 minutes. BURRRRR
Its my top-off water, a total of 2 gals. I do 3 gal boils. I dump a 1/2 gal chunk and a qt chunk and check the temp. Most of the time I use all of the 2 gallons of Ice to cool and top off.
Last nite I only used 1 1/2 gals of ice and had to use warmer water to not go below 62. Works pretty good for me so far. I'd really like to get a wort Chiller though!
This is what I use

 

[ajosin]

I created this http://tinyurl.com/4ysv8qb.

If you use it, let me know of any feedback.

 

[gjd]

Quart yogurt containers. Sanitize, fill short of top, put lid on, put in freezer the day before. Take them out 15 minutes before use, and they melt just enough to slide out. I use 2 or 3 per batch.

 

[BrewMeThatBeer]

@Jsamp: The plastic has a lot of give, so it expands with the ice

@ajosin: Couldn't use the program in your link for some reason....

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

[scottland]

I personally don't use this method, but the logic is 100% sound. As long as you sanitize the containers, and use good water it should work very well. Definitely much better than just using a bag of ice from the store.

 

[kyle6286]

I always thought it wasn't good to mix ice with the hot wort due to the temperature variances. One site I was reading said it's best to cool the wort to about 110 degrees and then top off with cold water or drop some ice in. No one has had any problems with mixing the ice with hot wort (200+ degrees F)?

 

[JonK331]

I always thought it wasn't good to mix ice with the hot wort due to the temperature variances. One site I was reading said it's best to cool the wort to about 110 degrees and then top off with cold water or drop some ice in. No one has had any problems with mixing the ice with hot wort (200+ degrees F)?

No problem with that. If you ran glycol through a plate chiller it would be roughly the same temp differences.

 

[JonK331]

I boil water and pour right into star San 'd
4 (1) qt , and 2 (1/2) gal ziplock bins with lids.
Then Freeze a few days before I brew. Just made a DFH clone last nite and got it down to 62 * in like 15 minutes. BURRRRR
Its my top-off water, a total of 2 gals. I do 3 gal boils. I dump a 1/2 gal chunk and a qt chunk and check the temp. Most of the time I use all of the 2 gallons of Ice to cool and top off.
Last nite I only used 1 1/2 gals of ice and had to use warmer water to not go below 62. Works pretty good for me so far. I'd really like to get a wort Chiller though!
This is what I use

As long as you're doing partial boils that seems almost superior to an immersion chiller.

 

[ajosin]

@Jsamp: The plastic has a lot of give, so it expands with the ice

@ajosin: Couldn't use the program in your link for some reason....

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

What was the issue (did you get an error, did you see the text fields)? It is a java calcualtor, should work on a PC (not on a phone though ).

 

[BrewMeThatBeer]

What was the issue (did you get an error, did you see the text fields)? It is a java calcualtor, should work on a PC (not on a phone though ).

I think it's a problem with my Java, maybe I don't have the latest and greatest version?

 

[user 84304]

Why not just sanitize the outside of the jug and drop it in still sealed? I bet it would be a little slower, but you could yank it out when you're down to temp then reuse it on the next batch.

A gallon plastic jug isn't rated for heat, so you can end up with some nasties and/or melted plastic. Bad news bears.

 

[BrewMeThatBeer]

A gallon plastic jug isn't rated for heat, so you can end up with some nasties and/or melted plastic. Bad news bears.

good point!

 

[Grumpybumpy]

A gallon plastic jug isn't rated for heat, so you can end up with some nasties and/or melted plastic. Bad news bears.

Ohhhh yeah. That could have been a disaster! I like the idea of (partially) topping off with ice. Might try that in a couple weeks

 

[Esmitee]

As long as you're doing partial boils that seems almost superior to an immersion chiller.

Ya think so? Never tried an immersion chiller yet, So this what I have to work with. Thats why I got (2) 1/2 gal bins and the (4) quart bins. so I can ADD what ever I need to cool.Also to know the amount of water (per Large CUBE) I added. 2 times so far I didnt use the whole 2 gals of ice and used water to fill up to 5 gal mark. Mostly.....they were CHEAP. I think I spent 6 bucks or less for all, and they are Microwaveable, freezeable, and dishwasher safe. Hence, I can pour the boiled water right in them. Although I learned to let them cool to room temp before putting them into freezer.
Anyway.....it works for me!

What would you say the average time would be to take the wort down to 70* with a 25 foot 3/8 immersion chiller? Do you use one?

 

[bottlebomber]

I created this http://tinyurl.com/4ysv8qb.

If you use it, let me know of any feedback.

I was just looking at that... I gotta ask, how and why would your boiled wort temp be above 212?

 

[cimirie]

What would you say the average time would be to take the wort down to 70* with a 25 foot 3/8 immersion chiller? Do you use one?

I get mine from 212 to 95 in about 10 min. Takes me another 15 minutes to get it to 80. That's about as low as I can get it (I'm in Florida so hose water isn't exactly frigid).

 

[bottlebomber]

What I've been doing for cooling lately is just using the good old immersion chiller, and I can get it down to about 85 with that. Then I just let the kettle sit with the lid on, and let everything settle, during which time it drops another few degrees. Since I have to ferment in a water bath in the summer, I go ahead and rack to my primary, and then I fill with my water and dump a half bag of ice in the water. You can chill it to whatever temp you want before you pitch, and there's zero risk of infection

 

[ajosin]

I was just looking at that... I gotta ask, how and why would your boiled wort temp be above 212?

That means that you are using too much ice and too little hot-wort; essentially you will overcool the mixture below the pitching temperature since the boiled wort will never be above 212 F unless you are using a pressure cooker .

Try lowering the ice volume to get below 212 F. Ideally you want to stay close to ~200F so the wait time is essentially zero before you mix the hot-wort/ice/water.

Also, I can change the applet so it gives a warning message (e.g. Use less ice! instead allowing it to spit a thoughtles hot-wort temp above 212 F. I've just finished some work on the .html page to make it look prettier. If folks are using the applet I can improve it (let me know).

 

[ajosin]

I think it's a problem with my Java, maybe I don't have the latest and greatest version?

Try again, I updated the applet page http://tinyurl.com/4ysv8qb. I suspect my free web-space sucks, so you may want to try-reloading a couple times (sorry )

Also, it is a good idea to have the latest Java version since old versions are more likely to have security vulnerabilites.

I know the applet worked for at least one other person since they mentoned they were asking about getting a wort temp > 212F.

 

[Esmitee]

I get mine from 212 to 95 in about 10 min. Takes me another 15 minutes to get it to 80. That's about as low as I can get it (I'm in Florida so hose water isn't exactly frigid).

Ha Ha , Ya know, I was really suprized after I got this H U G E plastic storage bin about 30 " long , 19" wide and 22" high. IDK, but it may hold 40 gallons? I dumped about 20 or so gallons of my COLD tap water into it to use as a swamp cooler, and I tested the temp of the water only to find out it was friggin 80*. I can fit 2 - 6 gallon carboys in it. Right now I just have 1 in it. I figured the large amount of warter, would keep my temps down and kinda stay that way with a little ice bottles in it. I live near Atlantic City NJ. I really thought the cold tap water would be around 65.... LMAO ! Feels cold , But its not. I got it down to 72*. I gotta add more 1 liter ice bottles to get lower. I also have the carboy wrapped in 2 wet t-shirts and have a small fan on it too!

Im going to build the "Son of a Fermentor 38DD" to use when fermenting. Anyone build and use this ? Looks pretty simple to build, cept for the wiring?

 

[Esmitee]

Oh.....with all of that water I have in there. Im only going by the water temp outside the carboy. I took my fermometer off, cause I dont think it would last long under water for more than a week...LOL Im thinking that the beer inside the carboy will be at the same temp as all of that water outside ?

 

[bottlebomber]

Oh.....with all of that water I have in there. Im only going by the water temp outside the carboy. I took my fermometer off, cause I dont think it would last long under water for more than a week...LOL Im thinking that the beer inside the carboy will be at the same temp as all of that water outside ?

Incorrect on both accounts the differential between the water temp and the beer temp is about the same as ambient air to beer, 5-10 degrees depending on the fermentation. And, those little fermometer strips are TOUGH. I have one that's been under water for about 40 of the last 52 weeks. What's more, I recently got a 7.5 gallon glass carboy, so I peeled that fermometer strip off and stuck it to the new carboy. Stuck like a champ.

 

[kyle6286]

Incorrect on both accounts the differential between the water temp and the beer temp is about the same as ambient air to beer, 5-10 degrees depending on the fermentation. And, those little fermometer strips are TOUGH. I have one that's been under water for about 40 of the last 52 weeks. What's more, I recently got a 7.5 gallon glass carboy, so I peeled that fermometer strip off and stuck it to the new carboy. Stuck like a champ.

I'm surprised you were able to remove it and reapply it. I tried to remove it from my better bottle but gave up when it started to leave sticky stuff on the carboy. I kept it on, submerged it in a swamp cooler, and to my surprise, it is still reading the temperature despite being under water. I was shocked since my last fermometer got wet and then turned all kinds of weird colors. Anyways, yes, the water temp outside of the carboy will be a few degrees cooler than the wort. I currently have BM's centennial fermenting for the first time and I'm using a bucket full of water to regulate the beer. My water is typically reading between 60-64, while my fermometer is showing 64-68.

 

[cimirie]

The only time I've ever had a temp difference (fermenting wort to outside water) of more than 4 degrees (F) was when I did a huge imperial stout on a full yeast cake. Ferment took off within seconds (OK, obvious exaggeration) it was violent. Temp difference was about 9 degrees.

My setup isn't special, but I typically am only around 2* different. Those who are saying you average 5-10 degree differences... How is yours set up? What is the ambient air temp? Humid? I'm just surprised there's such a big swing.

 

[bottlebomber]

My setup isn't special, but I typically am only around 2* different. Those who are saying you average 5-10 degree differences... How is yours set up? What is the ambient air temp? Humid? I'm just surprised there's such a big swing.

Well 10 may be unlikely, but I think as much as 8 for the first 36 hours of a vigorous fermentation. I just have a large rubbermaid chest and fill the it up to the same level as the wort. I chill it initially with ice cubes to get the temp where I want, then I swap out frozen gallons of water 2x a day to maintain the water temp about 62. But at this time of year my garage is easily 90 degrees. No humidity though, unless I just brewed

 

[Esmitee]

Incorrect on both accounts the differential between the water temp and the beer temp is about the same as ambient air to beer, 5-10 degrees depending on the fermentation. And, those little fermometer strips are TOUGH. I have one that's been under water for about 40 of the last 52 weeks. What's more, I recently got a 7.5 gallon glass carboy, so I peeled that fermometer strip off and stuck it to the new carboy. Stuck like a champ.

WOW .. and this time I thought I was getting better . Well its the best I can do with with what I have to work with right now.. Ill take your word on the temp difference, But with the Fermometer, last time I just had wet t's around it, and not under water. It was falling off and changing to a white milky color?

I guess Im going to build the "Son of a Fermentor 38DD" ASAP. I know I really need to peg the Ferm Temps! To get the best beer I can brew

 

[JonK331]

Ya think so? Never tried an immersion chiller yet, So this what I have to work with. Thats why I got (2) 1/2 gal bins and the (4) quart bins. so I can ADD what ever I need to cool.Also to know the amount of water (per Large CUBE) I added. 2 times so far I didnt use the whole 2 gals of ice and used water to fill up to 5 gal mark. Mostly.....they were CHEAP. I think I spent 6 bucks or less for all, and they are Microwaveable, freezeable, and dishwasher safe. Hence, I can pour the boiled water right in them. Although I learned to let them cool to room temp before putting them into freezer.
Anyway.....it works for me!

What would you say the average time would be to take the wort down to 70* with a 25 foot 3/8 immersion chiller? Do you use one?

Yeah as long as everything is sanitized. I personally wouldn't put hot liquid in those containers though, there is a possibility of leaching. I would boil the water in a large pot and then let it cool with a lid on it. Sanitize the containers with star san and then transfer when cool. This method is neat because you waste zero water for cooling.

That's the chiller i use. It can take anywhere from 20 mins to an hour depending on ground water temp and agitation. Cant use ice in full boils though.

 

[bigbeergeek]

Pretty cool technique (frozen plus cold water). If I find a free fermentation bucket to use, I might do a stovetop partial boil batch and chill as described above, just for fun and simplicity.