Wort- boil

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jpitz31

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Depends on what style of beer you are brewing. Some styles of beer are put into the fermenter with no boiling, Some beers are boiled for 90 minutes. Average boiling time is 60 minutes. If you boil longer you get more evaporation, so you have to compensate by adding more water boil volume.

Do some searching for receipts of the style of beer you want to make, the receipt will indicate, in most cases, what the boil time is. There is some chemistry involved, but depending on how technical you want to get, you may just ignore these and boil for 60 minutes.

Good Luck

Joe
 
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Jormunnr

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Right, I was aiming for an hour boil.

I have been trying to boil test on my stove. it's been an hour n a half or so since it was 180 and my kettle that started with 6.5 gallons of water has about 5.5 and is still only at 210 and doesn't look to be boiling.

I am concerned about the sugar conversion, and potentially burning it in the time it will take to even get to the boil. Then it has to actually boil for the hour or so.
 

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Things that make it come to boil a bit faster includes insulation around the kettle and having the lid on. I know some people also have the lid on during the boil, with a small gap.
 

jpitz31

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Sorry I totally misread your post. Until you can justify the purchase a propane burner or an electric brew kettle, you can always boil in two kettles. Keep the kettles covered while cooling. I picked up a cheap 4 gallon stainless steel kettle at Walmart for $25, I use it for small batch brewing, so I can test out recipes.
 

Dland

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Leaving lid on at beginning may help to bring to boil, and is understandable if brewing inside, but it is not considered best brewing practice. As it can lead to build up of DMS (dimethylsulfide).

Another way to get DMS build up is to cool wort too slowly from around boiling temp to 170F, especially while leaving lid on.

DMS has to be allowed to evaporate off or it may add the off flavors associated with it. Most commonly cited as "creamed corn" but can range to cabbage and other less palatable flavors as well.
 
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Jormunnr

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That makes sense. I found someone selling a 15 gallon keggle, propane burner, 3 carboys, brew bucket, propane burner and 2 mash tuns for 100. Seems like a good deal. As long as it's not rusted or anything..
 

Broken Crow

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Noticed you're new today so Welcome to the Fun!
If money is no problem, then yeah, grab something that can do the job you want done, but as schmurf said; Insulation and a lid (just to reach temp) can help. Stovetop boiling of that volume of water doesn't always work for everyone, plus; you'll probably have to wash your walls and every window in your apartment because of the steam, unless you've got it well vented. Propane systems are fine as long as you can get them outdoors easily or as above, have a really good venting system. For now you could wrap some reflectix around your pot and maybe find a large lid..second hand stores are a great place for those..even a large canning-kettle lid would be fine since you will only be using it till you get it up to boiling, then allowing the DMS to steam off. For the price of the keggle system you mention, you may want to look into the all-in-one units like the brewzilla, anvil foundry, digiboil, etc. If you want a 240V system you can always pull out your stove and borrow the plug like I'm currently doing.
Most of us on here will encourage you to buy more stuff...we can't help it.. But; for some cheap wrap around insulation you can make use of your stove and learn the process to better help you decide what YOU want in a system in the long run.
Be sure to read through these forums a lot...pretty much every question you can think of has multiple solutions, the only real trick is getting the search engine to work for you.
Cheers! :)
:bigmug:
 
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Jormunnr

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Noticed you're new today so Welcome to the Fun!
If money is no problem, then yeah, grab something that can do the job you want done, but as schmurf said; Insulation and a lid (just to reach temp) can help. Stovetop boiling of that volume of water doesn't always work for everyone, plus; you'll probably have to wash your walls and every window in your apartment because of the steam, unless you've got it well vented. Propane systems are fine as long as you can get them outdoors easily or as above, have a really good venting system. For now you could wrap some reflectix around your pot and maybe find a large lid..second hand stores are a great place for those..even a large canning-kettle lid would be fine since you will only be using it till you get it up to boiling, then allowing the DMS to steam off. For the price of the keggle system you mention, you may want to look into the all-in-one units like the brewzilla, anvil foundry, digiboil, etc. If you want a 240V system you can always pull out your stove and borrow the plug like I'm currently doing.
Most of us on here will encourage you to buy more stuff...we can't help it.. But; for some cheap wrap around insulation you can make use of your stove and learn the process to better help you decide what YOU want in a system in the long run.
Be sure to read through these forums a lot...pretty much every question you can think of has multiple solutions, the only real trick is getting the search engine to work for you.
Cheers! :)
Yea that definitely makes sense. I have the option between 2 propane setups and kettles and stuff I found on offer up that seem like good deals and I'll be able to take it to my deck and not worry about cleaning my walls as there is not alot of ventalations. I am on the 3rd floor idk how yeast and other bacteria move outside. All of those all in ones seemed to be well over 100 from them from what I saw.
 

Broken Crow

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There's a very large contingent here that brew outside exclusively and successfully. Just do a search here on 'brewing outdoors' and you'll find a ton of recommended simple practices to keep your wort sanitary. If you can get a system that 'feels' right to you both in price and how you envision using it then yeah! jump on it. ;)
 

VikeMan

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Leaving lid on at beginning may help to bring to boil, and is understandable if brewing inside, but it is not considered best brewing practice. As it can lead to build up of DMS (dimethylsulfide).

All else being equal, an uncovered bring-to-boil time plus an uncovered X minute boil does get rid of more DMS than a covered bring-to-boil time plus the same uncoverd X minute boil.

But if it causes an issue, one could extend the boil time to compensate. i.e. DMS doesn't become permanently "locked in" by the kettle being temporarily covered. I mention this because I have read concerns that a covered kettle causes DMS to condense and drip back into the kettle. That may be so, but there's nothing stopping the DMS from re-volatilizing and escaping the uncovered kettle later.
 
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Jormunnr

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That's what I was thinking. Like partly covered, with a longer boil time should allow it to still escape. Does that give more potential for burning sugars or any other conversions to happen when boiling longer? Or does boiling too long not have negative effects?
 

Dland

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Yeah, perhaps my wording could have been different. Leaving covered until boil reached should not be a problem. It is leaving fully covered after it comes to boil that can result in DMS, that and slow covered cooling in temp range I mentioned above.

Boiling for a long time will not burn sugars, however extended boils can increase Maillard reaction, which will darken wort and break down some flavor compounds. Never really had noticeable problem with it with up to 90 min boils, which is longest I think I've ever boiled the wort.

If you can achieve a fairly active boil for 30 minuets uncovered, you'll probably be OK. 60 Min would remove any worries I would think. Some say that beers made with a lot of Pilsner malt need a 90 minute boil, but I brew with it all the time, and 60 mins rolling boil has always done it for me.

But I'd encourage you to score some of the equipment you've been looking at. I brew outside behind my shop with a 3V homemade keggle rig, and it works out fine (note avatar). No need to worry about yeasts & stuff in air you mentioned earlier, they are everywhere, potentially in greater concentrations inside most places than out.
 
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Jormunnr

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Right and then when goes to boil it's going to kill any of them anyway. What about with cooling inside or out? If there is more yeast inside than out potentially. Then wouldn't that be the big issue time? It took me about 30-40 minutes to cool my last extract batch in my sink. With 2bags of ice and really cold sink water.
 

VikeMan

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Does that give more potential for burning sugars or any other conversions to happen when boiling longer?

Regarding burning sugars... they won't burn per se, but some will be used in Maillard reactions, resulting in slightly darker wort. But the amount of sugars used is small, probably not anything you'd notice in your final gravity/ABV.
 
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Jormunnr

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Oh. My last batch was an imperial blonde ale and took awhile to boil. It's alot darker than I imagined. And the og was 1.060 instead of expected 1.067-1.071. it was an ingredient kit I got from Amazon.
 
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Jormunnr

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Oh. My last batch was an imperial blonde ale and took awhile to boil. It's alot darker than I imagined. And the og was 1.060 instead of expected 1.067-1.071. it was an ingredient kit I got from Amazon.
 

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Dland

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Right and then when goes to boil it's going to kill any of them anyway. What about with cooling inside or out? If there is more yeast inside than out potentially. Then wouldn't that be the big issue time? It took me about 30-40 minutes to cool my last extract batch in my sink. With 2bags of ice and really cold sink water.
I run an immersion chiller coil in BK right after boil turned off. It takes less than 10 mins to drop to around 160F, and I use a very slow flow to cooler, results in 4 or 5 gallons of pretty hot clean water that can be used in clean up. And that for a 10-11 gallon batch of wort.

But quite a few brewers on this site let wort cool slowly, and they say it is not a problem. That is how I did it when brewing in the old days, and the beer tasted great to me, and I believe is was good beer.


My bigger worry is possible birds flying over, bugs, anything that could fall off of my roof ig.
Unbrella, baking tray or piece of plywood propped above kettle,...? I know you will think of something. :] Or you could speed cool it. And yeah, I try to avoid bird droppings, but an occasional insect will sometimes fly in, very unlikely to ruin the beer, never has mine. Sometimes I feel bad for the insect though, depending on the species...
 
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Jormunnr

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This has hot as I've seen the water in my kettle get. Looks like 210.. but is bubbling and looks like a boil. I'm just not sure if it is.
 

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VikeMan

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This has hot as I've seen the water in my kettle get. Looks like 210.. but is bubbling and looks like a boil. I'm just not sure if it is.

If it looks like it's boiling, it is. Depending on the angle, pics can be deceiving, but that pointer looks like it's at about 211. A degree is easily within any bimetal thermometer's margin of error.
 
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Jormunnr

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Awesome that's what I thought thought. I'm pretty positive if I were to throw hops in it would boil up. Took about an hour hour n a half to get to that temp from 170.
 

VikeMan

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Awesome that's what I thought thought. I'm pretty positive if I were to throw hops in it would boil up. Took about an hour hour n a half to get to that temp from 170.

If you are boiling on a stove top and taking 90 minutes just to reach a boil, I'd definitely recommend splitting the batch between two kettles.
 
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Jormunnr

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Yea that about what I figured but that is just for about 4 gallons of water. And after sparging the calculator says I should have about 7.7 gallons.
 

AZ Maverick

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Yeah, I do whole grain BIAB brewing.
I mash in a bag, no sparge (unless I have a big OG beer going) and during the boil I put my hops in a bag also.
Cleanup is easy.
 
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Jormunnr

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Yeah, I do whole grain BIAB brewing.
I mash in a bag, no sparge and during the boil I put my hops in a bag also.
Cleanup is easy.
Oh really? I only have a 8 gallon kettle trying on the stove. I was worried the grains wouldn't leave me enough space for water. So, I got a mash tun. Now I'm realizing the possible issue with my temp.
 

AZ Maverick

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Oh really? I only have a 8 gallon kettle trying on the stove. I was worried the grains wouldn't leave me enough space for water. So, I got a mash tun. Now I'm realizing the possible issue with my temp.
Trying to do full volume boils on a stove is iffy at best.
You really should get a propane burner - they are pretty inexpensive, and it make the boil easy-peasy.
 

AZ Maverick

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That's what I am trying to get ATM. Concerned with my apartments rules. We aren't supposed to have grills on our patio or decks.
Oh. Well that sucks.
I don't know what to tell you then.
But I do know that proper full volume boils on a stove are darn near impossible unless you have some kind of killer stover....
A good hot rolling boil at first in order to get a good hot break helps a lot in having a nice clear beer when you are done.

Schwarzbier_Boil.jpg
 

AZ Maverick

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Ah well dang.. yea it's just a basic electric stove. That 210-211 are the highest temps I have seen the kettle get.

You might want to research partial mash brewing.
I used to do that before I went full volume with an outdoor burner.
Partial mash is easy inside on a stove and gives you much more flexibility in your brews.
 
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