Wood-Gas Kettle Burner & Water/Wort Heater

[WortMonger]

Hey guys, been messing around researching these little stoves and I think this may be plausible to use for brewing. Maybe a larger one or more than one for the boil kettle, but they seem to pump out the BTU's. I figure the one would do the copper coil for a pseudo instant hot water/wort heater. Just an interesting idea I though we could discuss for possible future development.

I am thinking that if you already had the burner (for whatever personal reason) the heater setup would be cheap enough for a booster at least. I would love the idea of clean burning wood for cheap. No more running out of propane if the boil kettle setup would work.

 

[McKBrew]

Wortmonger, you definately come up with some unique ideas and have the know how to build them. This is made from a regular thermos? Do you have any other links/details?

 

[WortMonger]

Opps, sorry. Guess this would have been a good thing to share as well.
http://eddiem.com/projects/wood/turbostove/stove.html

This is the guy where my ideas sprung from and gave me the start I needed to start wondering.

 

[eriktlupus]

only prob i see is refueling will be a pain

 

[WortMonger]

only prob i see is refueling will be a pain

How so? You add wood at the top opening. Way easier than changing propane tanks during a boil, lol, and you get to burn junk.:rockin: Fire, Fire, Fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The blue cover over the coil would be attached and could easily be one handed while pitching a couple of chunks of wood/fuel into the thing. Also, I haven't drawn the top view yet, but the blue cover is solid under the handle to allow for more heat inside on the coils.

As for using a couple for burners under the kettle, I think they would be easy as well to reload. The guy that made this originally has some pretty impressive stuff, I just want to implement the idea into my setup.

If I could burn trash to boil water cleanly, I would start making distilled water and add salts . I could catch rainwater, filter it in-line and run it slowly through the heater on its way to the boil keg, put the collector and condenser on top and throw the burner under it. Reload every 30 minutes or so, and swap for another burner after the first is ash filled. Actually, you can use the charcoal from the first burner to start the second and save fuel plus get a great burn. I enjoyed my research on the stove type the last two days.

I enjoy looking at gadgets and new/old science stuff but do so with a open-but-cautious mind. Some stuff is complete crap like greater-than-input-engines and things. This burner/stove is simple: First and foremost, it burns great for cooking. Secondly, it is very efficient and cheap/free to operate, which makes it both great for the environment and your bank account. I mean they drove cars on the same theory of gas burning as this tiny stove works on back in WII (Europe anyways) when gasoline was in short/no supply.

This one he built has a high flame which I do not like, but I plan on more directional holes in the top of the burn chamber so that it burns more in the stove before it reaches the top opening of the burner. He also has holes directly underneath the burn/ash bed blowing out more directionally upward. I think I can get it hotter and more compact a flame doing it my way. This guy didn't have a machine shop to go have fun at. I keep driving these guys nuts with my projects questions, but they like to talk about how they wish they could help but.... I think I can get this one done on a mill all by myself in the corner of the shop.

 

[WortMonger]

Dang, imagine a peltier running the fan slowly at first. Then as the peltier hot side heats up, the fan picks up speed until it hits the level you have it set too. It could actually power its own fan, WOW! I am liking this idea.

Oh, and here's what the inside would look like only mine would have 90* jets pointing back down at a 45* angle to make it want to swirl inside the stove and avoid flames leaping out.

 

[Skins_Brew]

Has anyone had any luck with this? i have been looking into it on various websites I totally think its possible. A small camping turbo-stove can produce 10,000 btus. The only problem i can see is that they might not burn long enough without refueling it. I think if you made 2 large ones you could maybe swap the kettle over to a fresh turbo stove after the initial turbo stove started to die out. You could even use spent grain in these things. Just another way to recycle and be green. As soon as i get back to america and i get settled i think i am going to start experimenting with this theory.

 

[WortMonger]

I'm really liking the idea of an outside stove with an inside burner under your kettle with a skirt and exhaust duct running back outside. Then, you wouldn't have to have anything going inside until it was producing the gas in a sufficient amount. Then you could open your valve inside and close off your stove outside. You could make it big enough that you shouldn't have to reload the stove with fuel. I think spent grain is better spent as compost, and collected junk wood is a better choice for fuel. After all, you are saving it from going to the landfill to be covered for umpteen thousand years with little chance of absolute breakdown back into minerals. Not to mention I have a ready supply of cardboard boxes that always NEVER makes it to the recyclers due to them not paying for anything but aluminum cans. I compost as much as I can but I always have more than the composter can handle.

 

[pen25]

how about this??

http://www.turbostove.fi/englanti/teknineninformaatio.php3

 

[WortMonger]

I was thinking more like this. [youtube]zBsG32n_8oc[/youtube]That way the fuel and gasifier can stay outside and you can cook/brew indoors.

 

[BeerCanuck]

Cool stuff WortMonger.
I thought this was a kind of cool stove in keeping with the beer themes;
[ame="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835763/how_to_make_a_beer_can_stove/"]how to make a beer can stove[/ame]
or another cool one;
pop can stove

Haven't seen you in a while Wortmonger
Cheers
BeerCanuck

 

[WortMonger]

Found a site with BTU info. If that small a stove can put out 12,000 BTU/hour I'm thinking I would only need a little bit more for a keggle, maybe a combo of stoves.

 

[Ecnerwal]

Do enough research on wood gas that you understand the dangers - this harks back to the days when you stuck your head in the oven, took a couple of breaths, and dropped dead on the spot.

Neat stuff, but not very forgiving. Be careful out there.

Here's some additional reading on the subject - moderately off-topic to beermaking:

Fluidyne Frameset

http://www.hotel.ymex.net/%7Es-20222/gengas/kg_eng.html

 

[talleym0nster]

Somebody said something along these lines in a post earlier today (I've been on HBT all day - my day off): With the collected knowledge and ingenuity of the members of HBT, somebody could open a shop and market some pretty sweet equipment that is not necessarily readily available to every homebrewer.

 

[Orfy]

This is one of 3 projects I have been researching and I will be undertaking.
(Sometime).....
Glad to see there are a few others thinking about it.

 

[WortMonger]

Do enough research on wood gas that you understand the dangers - this harks back to the days when you stuck your head in the oven, took a couple of breaths, and dropped dead on the spot.

Neat stuff, but not very forgiving. Be careful out there.

Here's some additional reading on the subject - moderately off-topic to beermaking:

Fluidyne Frameset

http://www.hotel.ymex.net/~s-20222/gengas/kg_eng.html

I don't understand any dangers other than the normal with flames that eat oxygen. Can you explain why it is so dangerous beyond the obvious I mean? I am curious and would like to know if there is something I am missing, but what would kill you in a oven besides heat, or gas that isn't burning and you breathing it?

 

[Orfy]

I think they can produce quite a lot of carbon monoxide.
But you'd be foolish to use on indoors anyway.

I'm thinking about about using a simple "Rocket" design to see if that will work.
If it doesn't then I'll have to go the wood gas route.

 

[Ecnerwal]

I don't understand any dangers other than the normal with flames that eat oxygen. Can you explain why it is so dangerous beyond the obvious I mean? I am curious and would like to know if there is something I am missing, but what would kill you in a oven besides heat, or gas that isn't burning and you breathing it?

The gas being produced is a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen. As compared to methane or propane, it is far more hazardous to breathe. As compared to "but there's carbon monoxide from a propane burner" it's the difference between a few hundred parts per million (which is none too healthy) and 20% or more. This used to be a common "city gas", and as such was also a common means of offing oneself (by sticking your head in the unlit, pilot light extinguished) oven and taking a couple of deep breaths. Do that with natural gas and not much happens - it takes quite a bit more exposure and oxygen deprivation to do you harm. Do that with a high percentage of carbon monoxide, you expire - (roughly) CO binds to your oxygen carrying blood cells better than oxygen does and you suffocate on the inside, as it were. There are no doubt better explantions out there, I just don't want you folks to get into building wood-gas gear without realizing that wood-gas (aka producer gas) can be far more hazardous than propane. Per the link that follows, less than 2% of CO causes "unconciousness and danger of death" in 1-3 minutes.

2.8 Health and environmental hazards associated with the use of producer gas

If the gas is effectively burned, it's not a particular hazard, as it's mostly burned to CO2. But is the system is operated in a manner where unburned gas is escaping, it will kill you quick - and being home-made, it lacks the methyl mercaptan perfume that is "what gas smells like" (at least in the USA) that is added to commercially produced gas. You'll never know what hit you.

Not to imply I'm not in favor of it, here's another easily adapted design: http://www.woodgas.com/Turbo%20Stove%20MS-PITBC%20FINAL.pdf

Just be safe out there, and don't pipe it inside, please.

 

[Beer_Pirate]

has there been any more research done on this topic, or has anyone tried to apply this concept to brewing yet? This is a pretty old thread at this point, so I thought it could use a decent bump... esp b/c no one had effectively applied the principle to brewing yet.

 

[jgoette]

wortmonger, got any new info on this project, or has it long since faded?

 

[WortMonger]

Unfortunately, I haven't had any time to try any of these thoughts out. In theory it should work fairly well enough to at least attempt the experiments. I wish I had time. I'm thinking now of employing this line of thinking with a flash boiler type of system.

 

[jgoette]

well i was intrigued by the thought of boiling water/wort with scrap wood as fuel

after doing a search i found this thread, so please keep us (me) up to date if you go through with this idea and take plenty of pictures!

 

[smithat]

Hey guys,

There is a local manufacturer that produces large wood boilers using this same concept. I wonder if could you tap into it to make a wood fired brew kettle?

http://www.wooddoctorfurnace.com/

 

[noblebrew]

@orfy Did you ever build the rocket stove? I had thoughts along the same lines and was wondering if anyone else has tried this.

 

[WortMonger]

I saw a youtube video of a guy brewing on a rocket stove. Search rocket stove brewing.