WLP655 - Sour Belgian Mix

[JLem]

I'm going to be brewing a sour ale soonish and am researching the various souring bugs and cultures. I'm looking for something that will be nicely sour without too much (if any) of the horsey, barnyard flavors - something more similar to a Flanders Red or Brown than a Lambic. Is this a function of the yeast or the process (or both?)?

I listened to the BN podcast on the Flanders sours and Jamil recommends fermenting with a clean ale yeast first and then pitching a pack of the Wyeast Roeselare blend to sour. My LHBS carried White Labs yeast, so I was thinking I might try this technique but with their Belgian Sour Mix (WLP655).

Will this get me what I am looking for?

 

[JLem]

wanted to bump this up before it made it got lost on the 2nd page...anyone?

 

[jvlpdillon]

This may get more play attention in the Lambic/Wild forum.

However the 655 will work for what you want. The favorite sour blend seems to be the Roselare Blend 3763. This has Sacc in it as well as Brett, Lacto, and Pedio, and various others so there is no real need to also pitch clean yeast. That doesn't mean you shouldn't.

If you are worried about the overly sour/funkiness just transfer off the yeast cake after 6 weeks to 2 months. The Brett will keep going. Then leave it alone for at least a year before even thinking about bottling.

 

[Almighty]

Both the Wyeast and White labs have Sacc in them. Supposedly both the American Ale and Cal Ale, respectively.
The choice of pitching a nuetral yeast first depends on the end product you'd like. The big difference comes from the time the lacto has to eat before the sacc eats most of the food. Theoretically pitching just the sour mix vial should give you a more sour beer.
But even with the precise proportions of bugs in these vials, these beers are pretty random. And much of the end product comes from knowing when the flavor is where you like it and the most important blending.
Blending is how the commercial beers stay consistant and have flavors that are so complex. They mix young and old for some beers. And also blend similar batches of the same age for others. And this blending skill is what makes these beers more art than any other style.

 

[JLem]

Will pitching a clean ale yeast first keep the horsey, barnyard flavors to a minimum? Or is there a certain type of souring culture that is less horsey than another?

I can deal with the sourness, it's the "extra" flavors that I would like to avoid

 

[Almighty]

No, pitching the clean yeast will really only control the amount of sugar that the lacto strain receives.
And the typical "horse" flavors are produced by Brett yeasts. There are many strains of Brett and within those there are an unknown amount of variations. I can't remember what flavors each type of Brett are known for. A quick search and you can figure it out.
Brett is a slow growing wild yeast and if pitched after the main fermentation will basically just eat what sugar is left.
So if you just want very clean sourness then all you really need is Lacto. That is what is done for Berliner Weiss.