WLP540 Finished Really High

[_d_]

hello,

I won't add too many details, but my dubbel should have finished at 1.012, and despite holding the beer at 175 for 4 days and obsessive rousing its petered out at 1.022.

This batch was really just to grow some yeast, but now i'm worried that this strain has some nuances to it.

Before attempting to repitch, I need two questions answered:
1) Does this yeast have any special needs, i.e. temp, pitching rate, O2, etc.
2) What am i too do with my overly sweet belgian? I've never had much luck trying to rouse a stuck ferment, so i was considering tossing some brett in?

Any opinions would make me feel a lot better

Thanks

 

[_d_]

I found a bunch of other complaints scattered across the internet, looks like its not just me.
Apparently Neva had commented that an additional shot of O2 would help performance, ironically I had added a minute more O2 about 12 hours in and its still struggling.

i'm really considering dropping this yeast.

Anyone tried throwing brett or pedio into a stuck ferment?

 

[Zabuza]

I would highly suggest adding some yeast energizer at half the recommended dosage and stirring again. Always creates an explosive re-fermentation for me.

 

[tgmartin000]

Stir or shake your fermenter, and raise the temp a bit. It should come down.

 

[jfr1111]

Recipe and process (especially mashing temps) ? If you're not sure about yeast health, I would not recpitch. Bretting the beer wouldn't necessarily be to style, at least I don't think so, but if it makes it drier and more drinkable, why not ?

I agree that a sweet dubbel is not a pleasant beer. We have a micro here that does a sweet americanized version and it's so-so at best.

 

[Zabuza]

I really don't understand why yeast energizer gets no love.

OP, I had a Saison that was supposed to end around 1.015, and instead conked out at 1.027 - I added half the recommended dosage of LD Carlson Yeast Energizer/Nutrient, stirred, raised the temp from mid-high sixties to 74, and let it sit. 4 hours later, fermentation had started up again (a bubble every second or two), and I checked the gravity a couple days later. That was a mistake - the gravity had fallen all the way to 1.007! I had to cold crash to get it to stop and then back sweeten a little so I didn't have a watery Saison, but it turned out great. I've repeated this method several times with much more frequent gravity readings and smaller dosages and it's a stable, easily controlled process (just remember to cold crash when you've reached FG).

As far as non-anecdotal evidence goes, this practice is widely known and used by wine and mead makers. Just check out those forums! Its part of the process that one adds staggered yeast nutrients in order to keep the yeast going (especially in mead). Regardless, it costs like five bucks for a little bottle of the stuff which should be good for saving 15-20 stuck ferments.

 

[_d_]

jfr1111 - Here's a few process details:

OG was 1.060

Grist:
10.6 Pilsner
1.0 Munich
0.5 Aromatic
0.5 Caramunich
0.5 Special B
0.75 Dark candi syrup
0.5 Table Sugar

Mashed at 149

This was supposed to be a drinkable starter, so pitched 2 vials wlp540 at 64, that is a hair on the low side.
Ramped a degree a day until i noticed high kruasen beginning to subside, then ramped 2 degrees a day until i hit 175, held for 4 days now and obsessively swirling to no avail. I oxygenated 2 min when i pitched and 1 more min about 12 hours later.

 

[_d_]

zabuza,

I just happen to have some, I'll add some today and post my results.

Thanks for the tip

 

[_d_]

Okay,

I just took one final reading:
The gravity is at 1.024 (i hadn't bothered correcting for temp above)

I added the recommended dose of yeast energizer (2.5tsp/5 gallons) and swirled the hell out of it.
It will sit in the temp controlled fridge, with its fermwrap on, at 175.

I will post if/when anything interesting happens.

Note: After reading the ingredients, Yeast Energizer contains DAP. I'm always afraid that DAP will make my beer taste bad, so if this approach works I'll probably look for a nutrient without DAP to add. It may be unfounded rumor, but DAP is made out of ammonia and phosphoric acid, I'd think you want a pretty vigorous ferment to drive any of those flavors and smells away.

 

[ktblunden]

I really don't understand why yeast energizer gets no love.

OP, I had a Saison that was supposed to end around 1.015, and instead conked out at 1.027 - I added half the recommended dosage of LD Carlson Yeast Energizer/Nutrient, stirred, raised the temp from mid-high sixties to 74, and let it sit. 4 hours later, fermentation had started up again (a bubble every second or two), and I checked the gravity a couple days later. That was a mistake - the gravity had fallen all the way to 1.007! I had to cold crash to get it to stop and then back sweeten a little so I didn't have a watery Saison, but it turned out great. I've repeated this method several times with much more frequent gravity readings and smaller dosages and it's a stable, easily controlled process (just remember to cold crash when you've reached FG).

Saisons should finish pretty low. 1.007 is well within range. Just FYI, it's a very dry style traditionally. I recently bottled one that started at 1.064 and finished down at 1.004.

 

[Zabuza]

Thanks, ktblunden. I did want it to finish pretty low, but not that low. Was going for a heavier Saison to see what that would taste like. I suppose I should have said Saison alt or big saison or some such.

Oh and about DAP...you know how much of purists wine makers/drinkers are about their wine, right? DAP is their nutrient of choice. If it produced much/any off favors, I doubt they'd use it so religiously. Same goes for mead, which is perhaps even more sensitive to off favors than wine or beer.

Also, what do you mean by holding at 175? I hope those aren't degrees...anything in the hundreds would be insane.

 

[_d_]

Whoops! I meant 75, lets hope i didn't make that mistake in the garage..

I agree that DAP is ubiquitous, but since you're a fellow nutrient enthusiast check out Michael Fairbrother's (guy from Moonlight Meadery) NHC presentation, he warns against using DAP.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/lets-brew/homebrewing-seminars

 

[Zabuza]

Interesting, I'll check it out. Thanks _d_.

Let me know if the ferment gets going again and how the finished product tastes (in case DAP causes some off-flavors).

 

[_d_]

unfortunately the yeast energizer hasn't had much effect, I kept this at 175 for two more weeks and still got 1.022.
At least my bugs will be healthy

 

[Zabuza]

unfortunately the yeast energizer hasn't had much effect, I kept this at 175 for two more weeks and still got 1.022.
At least my bugs will be healthy

Ahh crap man, sorry to hear that. Another thing I've tried that I've since realized makes a big difference is adding some highly fermentable sugar to the energizer to get the yeast going again (after that, the energizer keeps them going). I didn't realize how important the sugar addition is when I originally advised you. I'm doing like a half cup table sugar with a half cup water and some yeast nutrient.

If you still trust me, I've found that combo (added as a mixture) works pretty effectively. I must say, however, that I haven't tried it after weeks and weeks and weeks of my beer sitting at a stable SG.