WLP036 cooler ferment

[MattHollingsworth]

Supposedly the same strain as Wyeast 1007. Wyeast's site lists the fermentation range as 55-68, whereas White Labs lists 65-69. I've found in the past that White Labs information on temps is not very good. Their site says you can ferment cooler, but be wary of sulphur, which the yeast may produce if stressed from low temps.

I was thinking of fermenting around 60 with this yeast, for a Dusseldorf Alt. Anybody with direct experience fermenting cool with this yeast? Thoughts?

 

[badhabit]

Just found this post so my response may be far past any usefulness but I had to respond just because I like 036 so much. I would say the it is not the same as 007. I have used both as well as WLP029 and now use 036 as my go to for all Alts. I use 029 for Kolsh only, in that it seems to give that very slight floral finish better, and do not use 007 at all any more. I like to make a pretty large starter, two step in 1600 ml. I would like to decant some of the wort from the starter but typicaly the starter is so active at 48 hours that I can not or at least do not. I pitch at 66/68F and hold for 24 hours after first sign of fermentation. Then I drop temp to 62 or even a little lower and hold for 13 more days. I always use a 2 stage fermentation with this yeast and give the secondary 14 days. I use to get pretty concerned that the yeast was not working/fermenting well but what I have found it that I get a quick start, usally in about 6 hours and a very active and strong fermentation for 24 hours. After the first 24 the activity slows down a lot and I use to be concerned that it was stuck. It is not, but it does not floc out real well. In the past I even tried rousing the yeast by stiring but had no notibly different results. Once I determened that there was still fermentiaon taking place after the first 24, although slow, I started dropping the temp. I bottle condition for at least 4 and up to 6 weeks and end up with a very clear and very malty Alt, far more so than I was ever able to get with 007. I would be interested in hearing what you ended up doing and how it went.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Funny you wrote now. I'm tasting it right now. Tastes great, but yeah, still totally cloudy.

I pitched at 62 and it was at 62 for about the first 16 hours. Fermentation started quick, though I didn't take notes on that so can't tell you precisely when it was visibly active. Seem to remember around 6 hours, though.

After 16 or so hours, it rose to 64 and I held it there for the next few days. It finished relatively quickly. Took the SG and it was 1.013 (OG was 1.053) at 5 days. After that it was held in the low to mid 60s (ambient temp). Just took a sample and it's still at 1.013. Brewed on 12-17.

I just now moved it into the basement area which is quite cold, in the 40s. From there it'll go into the freezer to lager properly for maybe 3 or 4 weeks before going into the bottle. I like the malt note from this yeast. The starter tasted nice and malty.

Thanks for your input. And, oh, yeah, didn't kick out any sulphur for me despite what White Labs' site says. Mind you, I didn't ferment that cold.

 

[badhabit]

Sounds good. I would bet that a couple weeks at 40 and you won't need to "lager" to have it clear up. Are you going to Keg or will you bottle? The only time I did anything like what you are talking about with Alt I had so much of the yeast drop out that I had a hard time carbing up in the bottle. I fermented in a primary about two weeks at about 55, after the first 48 hours at 65 and the finish of the very strong fermentation. Then I moved to a secondary for two more weeks at about 50. Then I bottled and held at room temp, about 70 for a week before moving back to 50 for another 2 weeks. When I opened the first bottle it was pretty flat. I brought it back up to the 70 location, shook each bottle to stir up the yeast again and let it sit. It was a lot better after 3 more weeks but needed to go about 6 weeks to fully carb up. Like I mentioned the only reason that I ever could come up with was that, as mentioned , I just forced too much yeast to drop out before bottling. It all seems a little crazy to me because it does take a little for this yeast to clear but...I already told you about my current fermentation practice which seems to work very well for me for about 4 or 5 batches of Alt a year. Post again if you think about it when you open a few that are finished.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I'll be bottling. I'm not *so* concerned, though. My most recent lager lagered around freezing for 5 weeks or something and I bottled it without adding any yeast and it carbed up nicely. I leave my bottles in the warm chamber, though, at 72-74, usually for 3 weeks. I taste one each week to see how it's going and move them out after 3 weeks if everything is kosher. Only beer I ever had not carb up was an 11% Belgian. With that, I had to pop the tops and add champagne yeast as it NEVER carbed, even after 3 months. After adding the new yeast, it carbed up in a week.

Well, anyway, I'll report back. It's sitting around 42 at the moment. I'll bottle it in 3 or 4 weeks, from the looks of my schedule.

 

[rakader]

Supposedly the same strain as Wyeast 1007. Wyeast's site lists the fermentation range as 55-68, whereas White Labs lists 65-69. I've found in the past that White Labs information on temps is not very good.

I absolutely agree. I.e. normally an Altbier yeast like WLP036 should work in two different ranges of temperature – one for Altbier 16-18°C, one for Ale 18-21°C. White Labs write only the temperature for Ale - and it is Dusseldorf yeast, a typically Altbier yeast which normal temperature is 16°C.

Thank you for the hint with Wyeast 1007

 

[dmtaylor]

I absolutely agree. I.e. normally an Altbier yeast like WLP036 should work in two different ranges of temperature – one for Altbier 16-18°C, one for Ale 18-21°C. White Labs write only the temperature for Ale - and it is Dusseldorf yeast, a typically Altbier yeast which normal temperature is 16°C.

Thank you for the hint with Wyeast 1007

Nine years later, and we've got some real actual genetic science that we can put to good use, rather than old KE tales.

WLP036 and 1007 are not the same at all. Worlds apart. WLP036 is more closely related to commercial bread yeasts than anything else.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XRUloO3WXqH9Ixsf5vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit?usp=sharing
http://beer.suregork.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brewing_yeast_tree_Oct_2019.pdf