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This seems like the type of group that might find the below interesting, so thought I'd post it...

White Paper: SSD Endurance and HDD Workloads

Helps to explain why they're not remotely the same thing, even though they're often both specification/ratings of data transfer to/from a storage device over time.
 
Nope. But I just had a laptop, after update and shut down was selected, come back up with BitLocker screen in pre-boot. Windows10 Dell. I think TPM got nailed by BIOS update, but apparently ASUS laptops had similar issue couple years ago.
I think its an ms edge short cuts tutorial, if it shows up down on the bar and you exit out, the bottom bar is disabled, ctrl alt del then log out then back in worked but I'm betting an easier way
 
This seems like the type of group that might find the below interesting, so thought I'd post it...

White Paper: SSD Endurance and HDD Workloads

Helps to explain why they're not remotely the same thing, even though they're often both specification/ratings of data transfer to/from a storage device over time.

I can't imagine anyone questioning SSD vs spinning magnetic media endurance. I briefly looked at the link, but lost interest. Seems like a duh.
 
I can't imagine anyone questioning SSD vs spinning magnetic media endurance. I briefly looked at the link, but lost interest. Seems like a duh.

The paper isn't really comparing the two in that regard, if you may not have gotten that far.

For me the interesting point was the recommendation to replace SSD when the endurance spec is met regardless if there is any indication of problems.
 
Every hard drive I've ever owned is sitting in a box in my attic as if someone was going to try to recover critical data from it some day. Or maybe come up with a project that needs a lot of magnets.
LOL, that was me too. Then I decided to start making stir plates for brewing friends. All those drives are gone now, and the internal magnets repurposed.
 
I have a powder-actuated nail gun that I use to dispatch retired hard drives with finality...

Cheers!

Much easier and cleaner than my drill a few holes through'em method.

FYI you should sanitize the drive before either method. A nail gun or drilling holes will protect your data from basic attacks (i.e. nobody can just plug the drive into a PC and get into it), but sufficiently sophisticated attackers could still get at it. The data is still on the platters. And as long as it's on the platters, you CAN get it.

Now, honestly I'm not sure how many people are attempting it. People looking for personal data for the purpose of identity theft (who would likely be the only people trying to snag individual consumers' old drives) are just attacking via hacking the companies who have your data directly instead.
 
I can't imagine anyone questioning SSD vs spinning magnetic media endurance. I briefly looked at the link, but lost interest. Seems like a duh.
This paper was written partially as a response to tech bloggers who were acting all astonished at HDD workload ratings and comparing them to SSD endurance specs as if they were the same thing. They're not directly comparable, but it's a VERY common thing in the world of tech bloggers / reviewers to mix it up.

Nobody else in the industry had tackled the subject appropriately, so the writer felt it was important to create this for educational purposes. And then the writer thought this audience might find it interesting ;)

The paper isn't really comparing the two in that regard, if you may not have gotten that far.

For me the interesting point was the recommendation to replace SSD when the endurance spec is met regardless if there is any indication of problems.

Yep. And it doesn't mean that an SSD will fail once you hit that limit. If you're using it as a read caching tier for performance and the data is on some other primary storage media, run it until it's dead. If you're using it for transient data (such as Chia plotting), run it until it's dead. If you're storing critical or personal data that isn't backed up elsewhere? Well, the clock may be ticking as you get beyond the endurance spec.

Of course, the real answer is that no matter what you're doing, any data you actually care about should NEVER be entrusted to only one single storage device. Because even short of an SSD endurance limit or an HDD workload rating, any single device can fail at any time.
 
FYI you should sanitize the drive before either method.

Lol! I'm not worried a bit ;) Besides the fact that nobody is going to be motivated to spend $$$ and lots of time recovering my data, two framing nails angled towards the spindle really makes a mess out of glass platters leaving precious little to scarf.

Next time I dispatch a drive I'll take a picture of the mayhem. It's awesome...

Cheers!
 
Lol! I'm not worried a bit ;) Besides the fact that nobody is going to be motivated to spend $$$ and lots of time recovering my data, two framing nails angled towards the spindle really makes a mess out of glass platters leaving precious little to scarf.

Next time I dispatch a drive I'll take a picture of the mayhem. It's awesome...

Cheers!
LOL. You should see what it looks like with the industrial shredders that the big cloud companies use for HDDs. The goal is to get <2 mm pieces because apparently the state of the art data recovery techniques fail below that level, but can succeed with pieces of the platter larger than that.

I'd have to take a look at a breakdown as I think a lot of 2.5" drives use glass platters as they're stiffer which is important in laptops (not that laptops currently use HDDs, but they did back in the day), but most 3.5" drives (which would be in use if it's in a NAS or other similar external backup solution) use metal (AlMg) platters. Glass is more expensive so it's generally something that's avoided unless the application requires it.

But yeah, nobody with nation-state level technology is going to be going through old damaged consumer HDD platters looking for data. Too much effort for not enough payoff.
 
For most of us at home, an OS "factory reset" of the OS (deletes all apps & data), in combination with a "wipe" of the free space (see #1 here), is likely the "sweet spot" for passing a computer along to someone else.

For the rest of "us", there's "NIST Special Publication 800-88, Revision 1 (pdf)" and "NSA/CSS POLICY MANUAL 9-12 STORAGE DEVICE SANITIZATION AND DESTRUCTION MANUAL (pdf)".

The goal is to get <2 mm pieces because apparently the state of the art data recovery techniques fail below that level, but can succeed with pieces of the platter larger than that.
Essentially following "NSA/CSS policy manual 9-12" (above see various pages for various devices)? I was introduced to the idea of "Incineration—incinerate at temperature greater than 670ºC" a number of decades ago.
 
FYI you should sanitize the drive before either method. A nail gun or drilling holes will protect your data from basic attacks (i.e. nobody can just plug the drive into a PC and get into it), but sufficiently sophisticated attackers could still get at it. The data is still on the platters. And as long as it's on the platters, you CAN get it.

Now, honestly I'm not sure how many people are attempting it. People looking for personal data for the purpose of identity theft (who would likely be the only people trying to snag individual consumers' old drives) are just attacking via hacking the companies who have your data directly instead.

It's all about the level of work to recover vs. potential reward gained by doing it.

I do a full format on the drives, which I realize isn't the same as as NSA multipass, but between that and the multiple holes drilled through I sleep well when a drive goes in the trash.
 
any data you actually care about should NEVER be entrusted to only one single storage device
I just cannot agree strongly enough.
This.
Times infinity.

I've had old tapes, floppies, CDs, DVDs, rewritable CDs and DVDs, 5.25 HDD, 2.5 HDD, pen drives, all fail, almost 100% age related. It's important to diversify and multiply your data asset portfolio, kids. Which of us in the biz have not seen/heard/experienced backups that are "awesome" until they fail during recovery because they were not tested?
 
LOL. You should see what it looks like with the industrial shredders that the big cloud companies use for HDDs. The goal is to get <2 mm pieces because apparently the state of the art data recovery techniques fail below that level, but can succeed with pieces of the platter larger than that.

I'd have to take a look at a breakdown as I think a lot of 2.5" drives use glass platters as they're stiffer which is important in laptops (not that laptops currently use HDDs, but they did back in the day), but most 3.5" drives (which would be in use if it's in a NAS or other similar external backup solution) use metal (AlMg) platters. Glass is more expensive so it's generally something that's avoided unless the application requires it.

But yeah, nobody with nation-state level technology is going to be going through old damaged consumer HDD platters looking for data. Too much effort for not enough payoff.

I've seen the "Hard Drive Truck" in action before, that is an absolutely evil machine.
 
For most of us at home, an OS "factory reset" of the OS (deletes all apps & data), in combination with a "wipe" of the free space (see #1 here), is likely the "sweet spot" for passing a computer along to someone else.

For the rest of "us", there's "NIST Special Publication 800-88, Revision 1 (pdf)" and "NSA/CSS POLICY MANUAL 9-12 STORAGE DEVICE SANITIZATION AND DESTRUCTION MANUAL (pdf)".


Essentially following "NSA/CSS policy manual 9-12" (above see various pages for various devices)? I was introduced to the idea of "Incineration—incinerate at temperature greater than 670ºC" a number of decades ago.
It's all about the level of work to recover vs. potential reward gained by doing it.

I do a full format on the drives, which I realize isn't the same as as NSA multipass, but between that and the multiple holes drilled through I sleep well when a drive goes in the trash.

Multipass is not required for modern HDDs. A single overwrite is sufficient, but it's recommended to use the ATA Secure Erase or SCSI Sanitize command to make sure that areas not addressible by the user (certain reserved areas, etc) are also wiped. If crypto erase is supported, that can be used and is basically instantaneous. If not, a single pass overwrite is fine.

The NIST 800-88 standard is generally considered in the storage device world to be obsolete and replaced by the IEEE 2883 guideline for media sanitization and destruction.
 

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