will using an airlock instead of blowoff change taste?

[dirtyjerz]

So I have a buddy that started me in this hobby but really hasn't had a chance to review and learn as much as I have. We went to pickup some 6 gallon carboys but ended up with 2 6 gallon true brew ported buckets. The guy at the LHBS said " You guys don't like pails to ferment?" I said no I don't, I like carboys I like the look and being able to see whats going on in the vessel. Having to open the pail to see whats going on seems crude. The LHB guy said we would have less of an issue with a 6 gallon pail then a 5 gallon carboy when it comes to blow off tubes. He saying I would just need an airlock and not have to setup a blow off tube because the 5 gallons of beer doesn't have enough room in a 5 gallon carboy to not blow over. I know this, but havn't had an issue with 2 batches I did in a 5 gallon carboy. I just setup a blow off tube and it's pretty pain free. (so far)

This made my buddy suggest to me that the krausen getting blown out the tube would be better if left in the bucket instead of blowing off, and that it effects the taste of the beer. I don't know if this is true as I haven't really read anything about that. I would be wiling to use the pails if this is true and then use the carboys as secondary's. What do you guys have to say about it?

Before

After moving to secondary and dry hopping. This was the 3rd week and was bottled after this picture was taken.

 

[jaycount]

Sounds like certified grade A hogwash to me.

Some folks will argue that less headspace is better due to less space for oxygen but I think that would only be a problem with long secondaries. Otherwise your headspace is filled with CO2 anyways.

 

[likwidbliss]

I have to admit that has got to be one of the classic misconceptions I have ever heard of. The other is hot water freezes faster than cold water.

how would a blow off tube change the taste of beer over the use of an airlock?

 

[jigidyjim]

The LHB guy said we would have less of an issue with a 6 gallon pail then a 5 gallon carboy when it comes to blow off tubes.

First of all, he is comparing two different size containers, so comparing pail to carboy doesn't matter here.

Secondly, you'll need a blow-off tube for some types of beer for 6-gallon containers (try a bavarian hefeweizen, for example). Just search the forums for pictures of very messy lessons learned...

 

[jigidyjim]

how would a blow off tube change the taste of beer over the use of an airlock?

I think there's a valid question in this conversation - does letting the krausen escape as opposed to letting it rise and collapse change the taste of the beer (and I don't know the answer to it, other than many breweries use the krausen as a source of yeast for future brews, right?).

But the shop keep did a very poor job presenting this to the OP - since airlock versus tube doesn't change whether or not the krausen escapes, it's just about headspace.

 

[ACbrewer]

While the blow off of Krausen is going to carry some protiens and stuff with it, I somehow doubt that will make much flavor difference. I mean in absolute terms it is like less than .1% of yoru starting ingredients (if that!)

As for the Krausen and blow off, the shape matters, the top of the carboy narrows, allowing for the foam to continue to grown higher than in a bucket where the foam has to maintain structure without and edge to hang on to... HOWEVER since the top is tapered in carboy, this means that the exit point is higher than in a bucket again creating stress for teh Krausen to not collapse on itself.... Which is better? I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you that shape also matters, not just volume of the headspace.

 

[Revvy]

It's not going to do anything noticiable.

 

[ACbrewer]

oh nice pic's btw.

 

[dirtyjerz]

I think there's a valid question in this conversation - does letting the krausen escape as opposed to letting it rise and collapse change the taste of the beer (and I don't know the answer to it, other than many breweries use the krausen as a source of yeast for future brews, right?).

But the shop keep did a very poor job presenting this to the OP - since airlock versus tube doesn't change whether or not the krausen escapes, it's just about headspace.

Exactly what I was getting at. I should have worded it differently.

 

[Chefencore]

Dirtyjerz- when you use a blowoff tube and get krausen in it, does your beer taste good? Do you mind cleaning up an occasional mess? You can always try 6 gallon carboys (I think they make 6.5 gal too) but on occasion you will still have blowoff.
And +1 on the seeing what is going on- half the fun of making beer is watching it (the other half is drinking it!)

 

[dirtyjerz]

I didn't think it would. But at least I learned something!

Dirtyjerz- when you use a blowoff tube and get krausen in it, does your beer taste good? Do you mind cleaning up an occasional mess? You can always try 6 gallon carboys (I think they make 6.5 gal too) but on occasion you will still have blowoff.
And +1 on the seeing what is going on- half the fun of making beer is watching it (the other half is drinking it!)

Yup tastes good. I'm just going to do the same thing I've been doing for now. I might have to use the pails later in the month since I only have 2 carboys.

 

[jigidyjim]

As for the Krausen and blow off, the shape matters, the top of the carboy narrows, allowing for the foam to continue to grown higher than in a bucket where the foam has to maintain structure without and edge to hang on to... HOWEVER since the top is tapered in carboy, this means that the exit point is higher than in a bucket again creating stress for teh Krausen to not collapse on itself.... Which is better? I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you that shape also matters, not just volume of the headspace.

Ah - good points. Someone needs to do some experiments and determine if a 6 gal bucket versus a 6 gal carboy overflows different amounts!

 

[dirtyjerz]

Ah - good points. Someone needs to do some experiments and determine if a 6 gal bucket versus a 6 gal carboy overflows different amounts!

Well I ended up brewing up about 5 1/2 gallons instead of 5 so I put half a gallon in a container with an airlock. So I'll let them sit for the exact same amount of time and see what happens in the end.

 

[topend]

Papazian claims in his book that a blowoff tube will let off flavors be expelled during ferm. That may be the source of this assumption. I myself assumed this from reading his book, but that does not seem to be the view of many of the members of this forum. I don't know one way or the other for sure, but I like the taste of my beer and I've never used a blowoff tube.

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[Kaz]

I have recently heard in a podcast somewhere or read in a book/article that the odors you pick up coming from an airlock are smells that are leaving your beer. I don't know if I'm capturing the essence of what I heard. If I'm remembering correctly it was pertaining more to the vigor of fermentation as opposed to airlock vs. blow off but the comparison could still be relevant. If you are going for a beer with a nice hoppy aroma, you add a healthy dose of aroma hops at flameout. If after that, you let the beer ferment like crazy with no temperature control and a lot of blowoff, you are essentially losing a lot of those hops aromas that you wanted. I could be totally off base, but this was a question that I was going to throw up here sometime as well.

 

[Revvy]

Papazian claims in his book that a blowoff tube will let off flavors be expelled during ferm. That may be the source of this assumption. I myself assumed this from reading his book, but that does not seem to be the view of many of the members of this forum. I don't know one way or the other for sure, but I like the taste of my beer and I've never used a blowoff tube.

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He also believed prolonged yeast contact was bad, caused off flavors and possibly autolysis, and that idea has fallen by the wayside. Both these ideas come from 30+ years ago, a time when yeast usually was hard to find, of dubious quality and parentage, came across in hot cargo holds of ships and sat on store shelves under cans of malt extract for god knows how long. Modern yeast is much healthier these days, and and contact with the yeast in either the trub or the krausen isn't the scary premise it was once thought of...We no longer worry about this stuff. And ideas of removing the krausen, that shows up in old books has largely fallen by the wayside...

 

[jigidyjim]

I don't know one way or the other for sure, but I like the taste of my beer and I've never used a blowoff tube.

How do you prevent a massive blowout? Do you use a ton of headspace, or do you just not use yeasts that vigorously ferment?

 

[Revvy]

How do you prevent a massive blowout? Do you use a ton of headspace, or do you just not use yeasts that vigorously ferment?

Fermcap-s is great for preventing blowoffs.

But I've only had massive blowoffs in 3 beers in all the years of brewing and two of those were this year and both blew the lids off the buckets. And that seemed to be because a hop blocked the airlock and pressure built up. They were both fairly large beers.

 

[topend]

How do you prevent a massive blowout? Do you use a ton of headspace, or do you just not use yeasts that vigorously ferment?

Honestly, I don't know for sure. My fermenters are 7.1 gallon white plastic pails, the kind that say "Beer & Wine" with a graphic on the side and gallon graduation markings. I always end up with a big gunky ring on the inside of the pail about two inches above the beer, but have never had stuff pushing through the airlock.

As for yeast, I use whatever yeast is called for in the recipe. The most recent is Wyeast Trappist High Gravity 3787 for a Belgian Patersbier, and it has been a very active fermentation through the airlock but no signs of overflow.

I have not made a "big" beer (1.070+ OG), so this may be something I will encounter with higher gravities. I plan on reusing the Trappist yeast cake for a tripel (1.073) when the Patersbier is done in the ferm, so I may be cleaning up my first mess sometime soon.

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[ACbrewer]

Papazian claims in his book that a blowoff tube will let off flavors be expelled during ferm. That may be the source of this assumption. I myself assumed this from reading his book, but that does not seem to be the view of many of the members of this forum. I don't know one way or the other for sure, but I like the taste of my beer and I've never used a blowoff tube.

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I might be missing soehting, but isn't a blowoff tube in a bucket of water simply a larger airlock? I mean they both force the venting through water Now I will go with the blowoff tube being less likely to clog given larger diameter and all, but in the simple mechanics, isn't it the same? Why would off flavored gasses be expelled better with a tube than a airlock? (solid matter is a different issue)

 

[william_shakes_beer]

If want the krausen to fall back into the beer, why not get a longer blowoff tube and put the high point a couple feet above the top of the fermenter? krausen will dissapate as it climbs and wash the material back into the beer. Not sure its an issue in the first place, only have 2 brews under my belt.

 

[topend]

The theory is that when fermenting in a carboy and using a blowoff hose there will be foam and other bits that get pushed up and out of the carboy through the blowoff hose, and that this foam and other bits contain "off" flavors.

Again, this may no longer be an issue with today's ingredients. Papazian presented this idea in his book, written several years ago.

I don't even know if blowing off the so-called off flavors would be an option for me because I use large buckets. In any event, it's not something I'm losing sleep over.

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