Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

[Dotay]

I used this induction burner this past weekend with the megapot 1.2 and it worked wonderfully. I'll have to check to see if I've got a hot spot like that on mine but I'm pretty sure I don't.

 

[IslandLizard]

I used this induction burner this past weekend with the megapot 1.2 and it worked wonderfully. I'll have to check to see if I've got a hot spot like that on mine but I'm pretty sure I don't.

Yes, please check also for the bottom being warped or bulged.

I just looked up induction compatibilty on the MoreBeer website:

Our heavy duty kettles work on induction stove tops!
Our heavy duty stain[l]ess steel kettles will work on an induction stove top! Please note however, depending on how powerful the stove top is, boiling times may vary.​

MoreBeer's heavy duty pots, like NB's MegaPots, also have 1.2mm walls. The aspect ratio of MoreBeer's pots is low and wide. Like my 8 gallon one is 14" wide and 12" high. They have a 10 year warranty, so I guess it's worth a try.

I'm still puzzled how NTBeer ended up with a blistered pot.

 

[Jpartschjr]

GFCI is not intended to protect the line or the burner. It is intended to protect your life. If you start being electrocuted, GFCI can detect this and turn off the power. It is very important to use GFCI in any conditions which may become wet - this is why you always see GFCI receptacles in bathrooms and kitchens.



A 20A double-pole GFCI breaker will probably cost you 2-3 times what a non-GFCI breaker would, but I would not skimp on it if I were you - especially when your panel is already a bit of a "contraption".



Skipping GFCI may be perfectly "to code", but that's because the code doesn't account for the fact that you're going to be cooking large volumes of liquid using this particular receptacle.

Why are electric stoves not GFCI or washing machines? I am just trying to understand better. I agree it is a contraption and i keep my water far from the open receptacles. Maybe a GFCI is in the future for this "contraption". Until then, YOLO (yes i did). In all seriousness, i appreciate the knowledge sharing.


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[mredge73]

Motors are not friendly with GFCI receptacles. This is why you won't see them being used for Refrigerators, Washers, and Dryers.

 

[chocotaco]

Why are electric stoves not GFCI or washing machines? I am just trying to understand better. I agree it is a contraption and i keep my water far from the open receptacles. Maybe a GFCI is in the future for this "contraption". Until then, YOLO (yes i did). In all seriousness, i appreciate the knowledge sharing.


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My apologies if I came off as condescending; I wasn't trying to be. If your "spider box" (colloquial name for a temporary power distribution center) was given a sign-off by the inspector, I'm certainly not qualified to say otherwise.

My understanding is that the NEC doesn't require GFCI for 220V receptacles mainly because it would be a financial burden to do so. Since any electric stove is likely to be 220V, that explains why they aren't typically placed on GFCI breakers.

That being said, I think it's likely that an electric range does include some kind of built-in ground fault protection - either on the individual burners or collectively. I am not an electrician, but it would be a massive liability not to include that on a high-voltage, high current commercial device where someone is eventually going to spill large quantities of liquid and immediately attempt to clean it up without thinking to unplug it first.

 

[Jpartschjr]

You were not condescending at all, i truly appreciate the knowledge and advice. I would rather be safe so i am definitely going to look for a GFCI for the future update to this.

Inspector said it was electrically sound, doesn't mean it is "safe" so i agree with your original thought to cya. A regular socket is up to code (typically) but without specific sockets can still zap you if it is disrespected and used wrong.

Thank you again, it is truly appreciated.




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[NTBeer]

Yes, please check also for the bottom being warped or bulged.

I just looked up induction compatibilty on the MoreBeer website:

Our heavy duty kettles work on induction stove tops!
Our heavy duty stain[l]ess steel kettles will work on an induction stove top! Please note however, depending on how powerful the stove top is, boiling times may vary.​

MoreBeer's heavy duty pots, like NB's MegaPots, also have 1.2mm walls. The aspect ratio of MoreBeer's pots is low and wide. Like my 8 gallon one is 14" wide and 12" high. They have a 10 year warranty, so I guess it's worth a try.

I'm still puzzled how NTBeer ended up with a blistered pot.

I'm puzzled as well. The pot bottom WAS perfectly flat when I started, and I have been using this pot on the stovetop for about 2 years without so much as a stain. I have no proof, but I believe this happened when I first started the Avantco up and it ran for about ten minutes without significantly heating the water. My theory is that there may have been a void in the tri ply that shaped and concentrated the magnetic fields. Though I can't explain why this excessive heat wouldn't have transferred to the water.

It worked well in my initial water only test, though even in that test I thought the area being heated was smaller than I expected.

As I bought the pot intending to install an immersible element, it is wider than the normal pot. I can't deny that that may be a factor, as it is almost double the recommended size for the burner.

Unfortunately, I was brewing a porter and thus couldn't really monitor the size of the area being heated while boiling as it was effectively hidden.

I intend to contact Webstaurant, and will update this when I hear from them.

Tom

 

[IslandLizard]

Took me a few hours Friday to locate the Nema 6-20 receptacle. But it beats waiting for an Amazon order to arrive. Besides, mail ordering mundane things like electrical and plumbing supplies is ridiculous, at least in my book of ethics.

HD or other "hardware" stores don't stock them, special order and up to a week's wait only. Then I found an electrical supply place that did (through internet and yellow pages), an outfit where the contractors go. I wonder if it's just me, but finding those kind of suppliers outside the HD/Lowes/(Ace) realm seems to become increasingly more difficult.

Then most of Sunday I spent running the wire from the panel to the kitchen and installing the new outlet. I'm familiar with that kind of work, it just takes time and you got to cut holes in ceilings, walls etc. Perpetual remodeling.

OK, we were finally ready for the test last night at 7 pm. Put a gallon of water into my 8 gallon, 14" wide MoreBeer Heavy Duty kettle with the tri-ply bottom.
In that pot, a gallon of water is only 1.5" high. I turned on the induction plate, first at low wattages, later at "full 3500W blast," periodically checking the outside bottom for any discoloring, blistering, buckling, or other unusual things.

Everything behaved as it should, without any buckling or distortions of the very flat and thick bottom. What I did notice was a slight darkening ring on the inside of the pot, in the center, about a good inch wide on a 5" diameter. It seems only the small, 5" coil is being activated, although the kettle is 14" wide and even hangs a bit over the sides of the plate. All heating and boiling seems to take place from this small center area. It's that 5" region that boils violently, the rest doesn't, it's only around 209.6°F, until I put the lid on.

Is this something you guys experience too? Why is the outer ring not on? wouldn't that be better for heat transfer and possibly more heat generation. I doubt I really pumped 3500 watt out of that small circle. That does not look efficient or right at all. Any ideas?

 

[brewman !]

Everything behaved as it should, without any buckling or distortions of the very flat and thick bottom. What I did notice was a slight darkening ring on the inside of the pot, in the center, about a good inch wide on a 5" diameter. It seems only the small, 5" coil is being activated, although the kettle is 14" wide and even hangs a bit over the sides of the plate. All heating and boiling seems to take place from this small center area. It's that 5" region that boils violently, the rest doesn't, it's only around 209.6°F, until I put the lid on.

For those not aware, boils need to be done with the lid off so as to drive DMS from the wort. If you heat system doesn't have enough power to bring the wort to a full roiling boil without the lid, you need more power. Keeping the lid on will result in beer with high levels of DMS and the resulting taste from it.

http://byo.com/stories/item/1650-wort-boiling-homebrew-science

 

[IslandLizard]

For those not aware, boils need to be done with the lid off so as to drive DMS from the wort. If you heat system doesn't have enough power to bring the wort to a full roiling boil without the lid, you need more power. Keeping the lid on will result in beer with high levels of DMS and the resulting taste from it.

http://byo.com/stories/item/1650-wort-boiling-homebrew-science

+1
Although that's true (at least to a certain extend), please note I was testing the unit with plain tap water, and only a gallon, 1.5 inch high in the pot. The lid-on was part of the test.

I'm sure the action of the boiling (heating and agitation) will extend normally through the whole kettle if it were fuller. Whether it can keep the whole 7 gallons in the kettle at a rolling boil with the lid off still needs to be determined.

I noticed only the 5" center being the sole source of the boil.

 

[carlk47]

Slowly converting over the basement utility room into my brewery!


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[sumbrewindude]

Nice setup there, Carl. Clean and purposeful - all it needs is some horizontal space and an easy chair to hang out in waiting on the boil.

 

[Jpartschjr]

So, others have asked about scorching ... Everyone says no worry... Did my first full brew on unit today and see pic. This was an extract braggot but i stirred during addition. Bottom is also warped and tweaked all over. Almost like it has been deformed. Still worked fine but just my experience. I loved how this worked overall.




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[Hello]

^ That looks like extract was immediately scorched to the bottom. That is the 5" center ring it seems. Did you turn the burner off when you added the extract? Even if you did, I think the pot retains some heat and that looks a lot like extract scorching. I could be wrong of course. I have not done extract on the induction.

 

[IslandLizard]

That bottom gets extremely hot from the induction current. And it takes time to dissipate that heat into the wort. Definitely looks like a bad scorch mark from extract. How did the wort taste?

On another note, is there any hard evidence there is actually a larger coil in the IC3500? I have the feeling that 6" coil is all there is.

Reason is, I did some testing with all sorts of wide bottom pans and pots and none ever showed a larger heating area than that ring.
I'll be brewing with that burner today...

 

[geoffm33]

Looking back to this post:

I don't know enough about electronics to answer your question about controlling external power, but I've included a photo of the insides that may tell you something. Seems like everything associated with the external power is a screw terminal and easily accessible.

Source: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/w...on-burner-work-301722/index9.html#post5820183

And using some assumptions and rough measuring.

Unit Width: 637 pixels
Manuf Spec Width: 12"

Based on above, the Pixels Per Inch: 53

Width of Coil in Pixels: 472

Estimated Coil Width in Inches: 8.9"

EDIT: My assumption is that the left edge of the unit is just off screen in the picture. If it is significantly off screen then my calcs are off.

 

[Jpartschjr]

Yeah... Next time i turn the burner off i will wait 10 mins before extract addition if I'm doing such. The wort had no off flavors as i stirred during addition but we shall see final product.

Bottomm of pot is warped and wavy. Dont think pan was made for that level of whatever. The heat should be find as local brew store uses that pot propane burners All the time. Until it shows signs of failure i will keep at it.


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[IslandLizard]

Looking back to this post:

Source: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/w...on-burner-work-301722/index9.html#post5820183

And using some assumptions and rough measuring.

Unit Width: 637 pixels
Manuf Spec Width: 12"

Based on above, the Pixels Per Inch: 53

Width of Coil in Pixels: 472

Estimated Coil Width in Inches: 8.9"

EDIT: My assumption is that the left edge of the unit is just off screen in the picture. If it is significantly off screen then my calcs are off.

Ah, thanks, I did see that picture a while ago, but it never registered as such.

I measured the size of the cord's (black) strain relief/grommet with calipers and mine is a hair over 1" diameter. It measures 0.7" on my screen, and the coil 5.5". So that makes the coil's diameter 5.5*1.02/0.7 is 8.0" inches, roughly. Since there are only 2 wires coming from the coil, going into the power supply, there's no reason to believe there's a center tap. I think we can safely deduce then it's that single 8" coil that creates all the induction energy.

[ADDED] OK, a little more precise. Measured the distance between the outer rivets on the back panel, 9.45". Coil diameter is 9.45*5.5/6=8.66"

Still makes me wonder why it only exhibits a 5-6" heating area and not closer to 8-8.5" with the wider bottom pots. I'll measure that heating circle a bit more accurately.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Webrestaurant is shipping me out a new Avantco unit!

They were great on communication, provided the RMA info and label with no problems and did it all over a holiday weekend. If anyone has an issue with their plate and it's under warrenty (which I hope they don't) Webrestaurant will take care of you.

Hope it gets here before Friday, dang it I want to BREW!

 

[njenabnit]

Motors are not friendly with GFCI receptacles. This is why you won't see them being used for Refrigerators, Washers, and Dryers.

Not after 2014. New rules require GFI for dishwashers at least. I'm not sure about fridges or washers and dryers, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[sumbrewindude]

New unit's here, brew day is on for Fri!

Really have good things to say about Webstaurant's customer service. They were attentive and shipped out the replacement in no time flat. Buy from them with confidence!

:rockin:

 

[geoffm33]

New unit's here, brew day is on for Fri!



Really have good things to say about Webstaurant's customer service. They were attentive and shipped out the replacement in no time flat. Buy from them with confidence!



:rockin:

Excellent! I'll be brewing tonight as well

Just had to retrofit my reflectix wrap over the new ball valve and sight glass I installed. Ready to go.

 

[IslandLizard]

I finally did my first brew on the IC3500 last night. A Deschutes Black Butte Porter clone. I was able to easily sustain a full boil with 6-6.5 gallons of wort in the 8 gallon kettle, without lid or any insulation. Heating is quick with the lid on!

Everything worked fine and as expected. If anything, the boil pattern is a bit irregular, with lots of surges that violently break to the surface, right in the very center of the kettle, splattering a bit of wort around, particularly after stirring. Now mind, I only have about 2-3 inches of headspace left in that kettle. Once it boiled, I was able to reduce the power to 3100W, and only went back to 3500W temporarily when adding each of the 2 additions of dark grain steeping wort. Next time I'll try the temperature mode see if I can get a smoother boil, with some fine tuning.

From what I read, all of the 3500W of power is delivered, either full time at max, or part time at reduced settings. The amount of power is not reduced; the on-time interval is adjusted when dialing a lower output or temp. So the boil surges may persist. Remember only a small (center) area (5-6" diameter) gets directly heated, and the boil pattern reflects that, large steam bubbles rising to the surface from that center circle. At least my kettle is 14" wide, so most of the boil splashes returned to the wort, only spitting occasionally on the counter and floor. Not too bad, really, propane does that too.

 

[Hello]

IslandLizard,
Do you note fairly small amounts of boil off?

 

[IslandLizard]

IslandLizard,
Do you note fairly small amounts of boil off?

I estimate boiling off at least 1 gallon during the 75' boil. That's maybe 25% less than I'm used to on the stove, not a lot.

The recipe was scaled for 6 gallons, aiming for 5.25-5.5 in fermentor and .5-.75 in equipment losses and trub.

I have a bit over 5.5 gallons in the bucket, and 3/4 gal left in equipment and trub, so that's 6.25+.
Started out with 7-7.5 gallons, 6.25-6.5 from mash and a little less than 1 gallon from hot steeping and sparging the pound of dark grains.

 

[blacksquid]

Wow. A year after moving into an apt., still haven't brewed and have been sobbing all day looking at Electric Brewery prices... Will most definitely trade my keggle for a Bayou pot and my propane burner to an induction burner. Subscribed!

 

[Siberian]

Thought I'd chime in here with my setup and experience with it, particularly since I think I can ease anyone's concerns regarding the scale-ability/capability of this system since I just did a 14g BIAB batch on it.

I have the same 3500w induction cooker in this thread, I'm using a 20g MegaPot 1.2 from Northern Brewer. Really only planned on 15g, but when I ordered that was out of stock so I went with this.

Did most of the same things as folks in this tread, ended up wrapping it in reflectix, etc. I'm brewing in my garage currently, laundry room is on the other side of the wall so I just cut the line to the drier, put in a workbox and ran an extra line to the garage wall for this cooker. Can't / Won't run the drier and it at the same time and haven't had any problems.

This past weekend I did a 10G batch of the Big Brew Day imperial stout recipe. I messed up the process (somewhat new to the all-grain thing as well as this system) which turned out to be 14 gallon batch and ever so slightly off on the gravity 1.094 vs the intended 1.1. But I got 4 extra gallons so, I'm not complaining. Probably be 9.5% in the end, so certainly a decent Imperial Stout.

Anyway, onto the point. This was 48lbs of grain and 14 gallons of water at one point. I've done nothing to reinforce the cooktop or spread out the weight. Didn't seem to bother it a bit.

I've had no issues with overheating at all. Due to the size of the bottom of my kettle I do tend to need the cover on to get up to a boil more quickly and completely uncovered I don't get what I'd consider a 'rolling' boil with this kettle.

That said what I've worked out is to prop the lid up and let steam vent out the side. With it covered that way a rolling boil for the 14g of water wasn't a problem, I've even found once it's there I have to reduce power or risk boil overs in some batches.

Thus far even though the lid is partly on I've had no problems with DMS in the beer, I vent enough steam I think to easily get rid of any off flavors. Though it's too soon to tell probably on the batch that is most likely to have the issue (Belgian Tripel from a couple of weeks back) since it's my understanding that Pilsner malt is more prone to it and that was the base malt there. If that one comes out successful I'm sure I have nothing to worry about. Going to do a gravity check on that this weekend so we'll see if I can taste anything wrong with it.

My biggest issues at this point with the system overall is I need to add a pump I think to re-circulate water and even out temperatures during the mash and I've had some failures of the thermometers I was using to measure mash temperatures (bad probes). Plus I'm still getting used it and understanding what my boil off rates/etc are.

Couple of photos are attached, one with the full hoisted bag is the 48lbs of wet grain from the Imperial Stout last weekend, to get an idea of size the bucket in that photo is 5-gallons.

 

[Pie_Man]

Wow, I just read through all 42 pages

Siberian and other BIAB brewers, do you have much difficulty maintaining mash temperature with this unit? Can you elaborate on your mashing technique with the induction burner?

In earlier threads, some of the BIAB brewers mentioned their mash temps continued to rise with the unit on the lowest setting. I am guessing people reach mash temperature and ocassionally add heat as needed during the mash. Is that everyone's experience?

 

[wobdee]

My BIAB mash temps seem to hold for about 45 min then drop a couple degrees by 60 min so I just let it go and don't worry about adding heat. This is without any kettle insulation wrap.

 

[Siberian]

Siberian and other BIAB brewers, do you have much difficulty maintaining mash temperature with this unit? Can you elaborate on your mashing technique with the induction burner?

In earlier threads, some of the BIAB brewers mentioned their mash temps continued to rise with the unit on the lowest setting. I am guessing people reach mash temperature and ocassionally add heat as needed during the mash. Is that everyone's experience?

I've done about 5 batches on this setup and I'm still working out some kinks.

First few I had some problems only with actually reading the temperature accurately, I seemed to have a lot of hotspotting occuring in the kettle due to the large volume vs very narrow area of the kettle that was being heated. I'm sure this isn't really a problem for folks with somewhat smaller kettles. What I was experiencing was that it was quite hard to accurately measure the mash temperature. It would seem okay then suddenly shoot up 10 degrees if I moved the thermometer to another area, was a huge headache at times and really messed up one batch.

I've solved this by adding a small pump (see attached image) for recirculating the wort while mashing. With that running and pulling wort from the bottom and then sort of whirlpooling it back into the kettle during the mash the temperature is much more stable. Planning to drill a hole and setup a proper whirlpool port and shorten up the hoses in the future, but the photo was a test run last weekend.

I do lose temp while mashing, probably 1-2 degrees every 20 minutes. Probably exaggerated by my choice to use such an oversized kettle.

I have found that yes, if you set it to the lowest setting by temperature which according to the display is '140 degrees' it will keep creeping up very slowly when the wort is at even 150 degrees.

So, it takes some babysitting. I have an alarm on my thermometer for low temps and high temps. So, if I'm trying to hit 150 degrees for a mash. I'll set it's low to say 148 and the high to 150. Once I get it up to temp when it hits 148 it'll sound. I'll go out put the burner back on the lowest setting for maybe 5 minutes, so it climbs back to 148.5 or so then turn it off. I found that longer then that or trying to heat up to 150 fully will cause me to overshoot, there is about a degree or so of rise that will show up even after I've cut the heat. Usually it'll climb up then to 150 or barely 151 and then start back down at that point.

Not too bad, would probably be less of an issue if I hadn't been so aggressive with my kettle size. You could probably automate it with a fancy controller but for now I'm happy to be that hands on.