Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Joined
Nov 26, 2016
Messages
3,977
Reaction score
3,756
Location
Chicago
Is anyone using a tri-ply/tri-clad bottom kettle with their Avantco IC3500??

With a single layer of reflectix on my Bayou Classic 1044 (non tri-clad):

Starting with 8 gallons at 58*

94* at 16 minutes
160* at 46 minutes
212* at 72 minutes

I'd like to see how that compares to something with a tri-clad bottom.
Does a magnet stick to your pot? I have the same pot and a magnet wouldn't stick so I didn't think it was suitable for induction.
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
17,979
Reaction score
8,063
Location
Pasadena, MD
Is anyone using a tri-ply/tri-clad bottom kettle with their Avantco IC3500??

With a single layer of reflectix on my Bayou Classic 1044 (non tri-clad):

Starting with 8 gallons at 58*

94* at 16 minutes
160* at 46 minutes
212* at 72 minutes

I'd like to see how that compares to something with a tri-clad bottom.
Your answer may be in this thread, reporting results with induction equipment.

Does a magnet stick to your pot? I have the same pot and a magnet wouldn't stick so I didn't think it was suitable for induction.
The non-sticking magnet is an inconclusive test for induction capability. We do know when a magnet sticks it IS positively suitable for induction. However, when it doesn't stick it doesn't mean it won't work. It may still work fine.

I have an 8 gallon tri-ply bottomed kettle (MoreBeer Heavy Duty), a magnet sticks to it everywhere. I think it takes about 20-30 minutes to heat 4 gallons of strike water to 175F, but I never really measured the exact time, it heats while I measure out grains and mill them. When I get back inside it's usually about ready.

I also have a cheap 8 gallon single ply kettle (Polarware), to which a magnet will not stick. I often heat my sparge water in that, also using the IC3500. I have no clear evidence it takes any longer.
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
17,979
Reaction score
8,063
Location
Pasadena, MD
Your answer may be in this thread, reporting results with induction equipment
.

Thanks! Found this one:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6442872&postcount=58

Based on my calc: http://www.geoffmanning.com/homebrew/wattage-efficiency-calculator/

It seems more efficient than my system. 77% vs 72%.
Ironic to see I that I redirected you to your own thread!
I wasn't aware of the efficiency calculator on your site either.

It indeed hints to a slightly lesser efficiency (6.4%) on your system, perhaps due to the kettle material; there could be others, such as heat loss.

The factors involved to determine how efficient the induction energy is transferred to the wort is perhaps a bit more complex. To really assesses and compare transfer efficiency one could measure voltage and current in the supply line. Not the case here, but unless the same model unit is used, energy losses within each unit need to be subtracted to be fair. Kettle geometry, construction, insulation, etc. add a few more variables in regard to overall efficiency.

As I said I have the feeling my cheap light weight Polarware kettle is not quite as efficient as the Heavy Duty one. I'll try to measure it next time.
 

geoffm33

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
825
Reaction score
199
Location
BOSTON
Ironic to see I that I redirected you to your own thread!
I wasn't aware of the efficiency calculator on your site either.

It indeed hints to a slightly lesser efficiency (6.4%) on your system, perhaps due to the kettle material; there could be others, such as heat loss.

The factors involved to determine how efficient the induction energy is transferred to the wort is perhaps a bit more complex. To really assesses and compare transfer efficiency one could measure voltage and current in the supply line. Not the case here, but unless the same model unit is used, energy losses within each unit need to be subtracted to be fair. Kettle geometry, construction, insulation, etc. add a few more variables in regard to overall efficiency.

As I said I have the feeling my cheap light weight Polarware kettle is not quite as efficient as the Heavy Duty one. I'll try to measure it next time.
Ha! No worries! I was on a brewing hiatus for well over a year so I haven't been around much at all.

The heat time I was comparing against was also using a neoprene keg sleeve vs. the reflectix on my kettle. So there is that as well.

I am looking to get a new kettle for Xmas from my kids but only if it's as efficient or better than my setup. I like the welded ports and the kettle markings. And my kids will like the bling factor ;)
 

DaveNH

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
27
Reaction score
0

tyhoward

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Messages
103
Reaction score
4
Location
Kalamazoo
Is anyone using a tri-ply/tri-clad bottom kettle with their Avantco IC3500??

With a single layer of reflectix on my Bayou Classic 1044 (non tri-clad):

Starting with 8 gallons at 58*

94* at 16 minutes
160* at 46 minutes
212* at 72 minutes

I'd like to see how that compares to something with a tri-clad bottom.
I recently acquired a 10 gallon tall boy kettle (tri-clad). I've been trying to get everything in order to test it out. I'll post here once I do.
 

DevilsCups

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
110
Reaction score
24
Hey guys and gals. Have to unfortunately sell off my Avantco setup. If anyone might be interested let me know. I'm in NY. Looking to sell with my Bayou 10gal kettle (try-ply with ball valve) and my cooler mash tun to mash in a bag.

Sorry if it's improper to post in here, but figured if someone is thinking about taking the leap I can help provide them with a whole setup! I'm in NY, and yes, this setup is absolutely awesome.

Everything is in perfect shape. PM me if interested!
 

Carolina_Matt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
436
Reaction score
229
I've spent countless hours looking at various eBIAB options, and I've read over 15 pages of this thread so far. It seems like a 3500 watt induction burner is my best bet. I like the idea of Plug-and-Play, without dealing with drilling a hole in my kettle, wiring heating elements and an ezBoil (or similar device), etc.

My breaker box is in my garage, and (thankfully) I would be brewing within a couple feet of it, so I would just need to have an electrician install an outlet right under the breaker box. My house was built in 2013 so the wiring should be modern, and there are spots available in the circuit breaker.

What exactly do I ask for? Would I just ask him to install a 20 amp, 240 V outlet like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...e-Single-Outlet-White-R52-05821-0WS/100356999

Do I need to specify any type of wires, or would it be obvious to an electrician?

Or for people starting from scratch, is there any benefit to adding a standard dryer-plug outlet (6-30P) then spending another ~$25 for something like this? I don't know if that would make it easier to switch to a 5500 watt element at some point down the road if I wanted to go that route - or if both outlets would be the same for that.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Locking...iFDMZMZIWz-ljRXmhpgaAsu3EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


On a separate note, I did run across this Evergreen 3500 watt induction for under $120 with free shipping. Personally, I'd opt for the Avantco because of the amount of good reviews, but the Evergreen looks very similar. There are no reviews for this specific model, but their 1800 watt version gets good reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0762YZ9JM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 

brewman !

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
217
You want a 20A 240 GFCI breaker installed and a wall outlet to match whatever unit you are going to buy.

Note that the plug you gave the image for is only 3 poles and supplies 240VAC only. There are 4 pole plugs that can supply both 120VAC and 240VAC. It doesn't sound like your induction heat unit will need both voltages but thinking ahead you may someday install a panel that does need both. You could have the electrician run 12/3 + ground to the outlet box and use a 3 pole plug for now and then change it to a 4 pole plug later on. If he runs 12/2 + ground to the outlet box, you'll have to rerun the wire to 12/3 + ground later on.

FYI, if you are using a pump, you'll also need a 120VAC GFCI breaker and outlet installed.

I just installed a 4 pole plug under my kitchen sink for my custom DIY 5 Kw induction brew stand.

20181226_221332.jpg
20190122_223029.jpg
 
Last edited:

gromitdj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
1,573
Reaction score
553
Location
Orange County
I would request prices for both a 20 amp and 30 amp 4 wire GFCI protected circuit to see if you might prefer just to upsize it in case you decide to change things up later.

The Avantco 3500 uses a 20 amp, 3 wire plug (NEMA 6-20) so you wouldn't "need" a 4 wire installation if you're sure you'll never do a panel that would require it.

If you did install a 4 wire circuit, you'd need to buy or build a short pigtail to use with the Induction cooktop's 3-wire plug.
 

brewman !

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
217
If you did install a 4 wire circuit, you'd need to buy or build a short pigtail to use with the Induction cooktop's 3-wire plug.
You can install 12/3 (+ground) wire right to the outlet box and still install a 3 pole plug in the box. To do this, don't connect the neutral wire at either end or connect it in the panel and put a wire nut on it in the outlet box.

If you want to install a 4 pole plug later on, just turn off the breaker, open the outlet box, remove the old outlet and install the new outlet.

I think 30A wire and a 30A GFCI is overkill unless you plan to go with a 3 vessel system where you would potentially be heating 2 vessels at once.
 

brewman !

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
217
FYI... my 5 Kw induction unit runs fine on 20A. I suspect that even the 5500 watt elements will run OK on 20A, but that would be pushing it.
 

Carolina_Matt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
436
Reaction score
229
Thanks for the responses - they were very helpful! I would not be using a pump or a 3 vessel system, but I do have a 15 amp GFCI outlet in the garage already. If anything, I can use my Anova Sous Vide (900 watts, I think) to speed up the mash temp process.

It looks like it would be about $90 in parts (or $20 if I didn't get GFCI, but better safe than sorry). Installation seems very easy too, since it's so close to the panel and I wouldn't need to run lines very far.

Install the breaker to the panel ($77).

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens...F2-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker-US2-QF220AP/206965328

Attach 12/3+ground wire ($3.50 for 3 feet, but I might need less).

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...x-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63947699/204724937

Put a hole in the drywall, then attach the wire to the outlet ($5).

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...ickid=R4NUwQQEUzeI15Txpd2EByKfUkgVwPUXC2fx0o0

Install wall plate ($1.60)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Legrand...e-Wall-Plate-Stainless-Steel-SL7CC5/202655370

Between my dad, stepdad, and a buddy that renovated his basement, it can probably be done without pay for labor.
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
17,979
Reaction score
8,063
Location
Pasadena, MD
That's a not a bad price for a GFCI panel breaker. For my SQ-D panel it would be around $180 last time I checked.
Make sure it's the right model for your panel.

Ideally, that breaker should be installed in the top section of the panel so the white pigtail wire can be connected directly to the neutral bar, which is most often at the same potential as the ground bar. Not sure if "code" allows that pigtail wire to be extended.
So you may need a bit more length of 12/3 W/G wire.

Now, for your induction plate you really don't need a GFCI. The unit is grounded through the plug. That's all that's required, unless you make a habit of severely drenching or flooding that area it sits on. ;)

I have the IC3500, it's in the kitchen, I use it for other cooking purposes than just brewing and making starter wort. Like stir fry, chili, stews, kettles of soup stock, etc. For the price it's hard to beat, although the $120 Evergreen you mentioned got me intrigued now.
Likely due to that extra use, I've had to clean the internal fan and re-oil the bearing a few times over the past 4-5 years. That fan is fairly low quality, but is essential to cooling the power regulators mounted on a large heat sink. I haven't found a suitable replacement for that fan so far. It only takes me about 30-40 minutes to do the job now.
 

brewman !

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
217
Ideally, that breaker should be installed in the top section of the panel so the white pigtail wire can be connected directly to the neutral bar,
Code generally disallows extension wires via wire nut connections in a panel.

which is most often at the same potential as the ground bar.
You cannot rely on Neutral being at ground potential. It should be, but you can never assume that and never connect the two together in a panel.

Not sure if "code" allows that pigtail wire to be extended.
See above.

Now, for your induction plate you really don't need a GFCI. The unit is grounded through the plug. That's all that's required, unless you make a habit of severely drenching or flooding that area it sits on. ;)
Grounding an appliance does not prevent it from shocking the user in wet conditions. This is why GFCI were invented. Any appliance that is operated within a certain distance of water is supposed to be plugged into a GFCI outlet.
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
17,979
Reaction score
8,063
Location
Pasadena, MD
I know this thread has gone dormant, but figured I'd post here anyway if it helps anyone considering induction. The IC3500 is $139.99 with free shipping with code 224DEALS through midnight tomorrow (2/26/2020).
Wow, that's a deal!
Everyone on the fence should now get one, no excuse.

I already have 2 of them. Makes me think, hmm...
 

Dancy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
237
Reaction score
159
I know this thread has gone dormant, but figured I'd post here anyway if it helps anyone considering induction. The IC3500 is $139.99 with free shipping with code 224DEALS through midnight tomorrow (2/26/2020).
Just went there - $156.
 

phyllobeddo

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
550
Reaction score
114
Location
Southeast
I double checked it and after I applied the coupon code 224DEALS it went to 139.99 with free ground shipping. What a great deal! I think I bought mine for close to $300 in 2016.
 

Cato1507

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
216
Reaction score
108
Location
Virginia Beach
I bought mine off of Amazon and at the time was able to get a 2 year replacement warranty on it. Warranty was like 9-10 $ and I think I paid about $160 for the IC3500.
 

cbier60

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
197
Reaction score
88
Location
Atlanta
Mine's been cranking for 3 1/2 years. I hope someone was able take advantage of this great deal. I paid $170 + $7.50 shipping for essentially local delivery.
 
Top