Will this be red?

[Hayden512]

Made a pretty basic Irish Red recipe tonight that I'm planning on doing tomorrow? Just wondering if this will get me in the color range? I've never had luck getting a super red color. Thanks

9 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 74.2 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 20.6 %
6.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.1 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.1 %
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 17.1 IBUs
0.50 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 4.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1084) [124.21 ml] Yeast 7 -

 

[jodell]

That seams like too much roasted barley to be red.. maybe drop that down. Also I add special b malt to my red ale and it gets a great red color

 

[CarbonTom]

I have found that melanoiden malt helps bring out red, you could sub that for some roasted malt. Also Red X malt is fantastic for that without any added roast, sub that for some munich. Good luck! Should be a delicious beer regardless.

 

[ajdelange]

Made a pretty basic Irish Red recipe tonight that I'm planning on doing tomorrow? Just wondering if this will get me in the color range? I've never had luck getting a super red color.

That's because all beers are, at the bottom of it, the same color to pretty good approximation. Beers made with RedX malt aren't any redder than beers made with other malts that are of the same SRM. This is what I call the Constant Normalized Spectrum hypothesis which says that we can treat beer color as if all coloration comes from a single substance with an absorption spectrum you can find at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Reference_Method so that, as the article says, if you know the SRM value you can calculate the spectrum.

The redness of the beer depends on the amount of beer the light passes through and the SRM of the beer. Beer in a wide glass looks redder than the same beer in a narrow glass. Even a pale beer looks pretty red if you shine a light through a carboy full of it. If you want to see really red beer put a half inch of stout in a glass and shine a flashlight up through it.

Now the CNS hypothesis is not true - just so close to being true that it helps us describe beer colors more precisely than just the SRM. It explains about 90% of beer color. The rest can be picked up by measuring how much the beer deviates from the CNS hypothesis.

 

[Pappers_]

That seams like too much roasted barley to be red.. maybe drop that down. Also I add special b malt to my red ale and it gets a great red color

That's remarkable. Does the Special B also help your beer defy the law of gravity?

 

[Pappers_]

I have found that melanoiden malt helps bring out red, you could sub that for some roasted malt. Also Red X malt is fantastic for that without any added roast, sub that for some munich. Good luck! Should be a delicious beer regardless.

+1 on both the melanoiden and Red X. Also, I've used a technique that another member here taught me - add the roast as you sparge, don't mash it, just mix it in while you sparge. Adds color and very little flavor.

 

[rhys333]

I find an ounce or two of black patent with a healthy dose of Munich malt helps redden a beer. Course, my example was a raspberry saison, so it was sorta pinkish to begin with. Any time I go with dark Munich it does tend to take on a slightly reddish hue though.

 

[jodell]

That's remarkable. Does the Special B also help your beer defy the law of gravity?

Yes you will defy the lays of gravity. after a beer or two of that...

Also I believe I put 8 Oz of special b in that but let me check

EDIT: yes it was 8 Oz along with 4 Oz of crystal 40

 

[ajdelange]

I find an ounce or two of black patent with a healthy dose of Munich malt helps redden a beer. Course, my example was a raspberry saison, so it was sorta pinkish to begin with. Any time I go with dark Munich it does tend to take on a slightly reddish hue though.

Yes, it would and some black patent will have the same effect as will a drop or 2 of Sinamar. Add SRM and you are adding red. This is inherent in the shape of the absorbtion spectrum: more light is transmitted at the red end of the spectrum than at the blue.

If you think adding RedX or Melanoidin malt makes your beer redder than any other malt that adds the same number of SRM units you are experiencing what is known as "Confimation Bias". Were you to put the beer into a spectrophotometer you would see no (or unappreciable) relative difference (yes, I have done this). It's like the pH 5.2 mash pH stabilizer. It works great if you don't own a pH meter.

 

[bucketnative]

That's because all beers are, at the bottom of it, the same color to pretty good approximation.

In grad school, we ran Guinness and Bud Light through a spectrophotometer in the visible spectrum. Damn if they weren't the same spectra, albeit with significant differences in absorbance intensity.

Same with urine... when one is really dehydrated, it can look reddish orange. But if one has been drinking a lot Guinness or Bud Light, it's so pale yellow, it's almost clear.

Before you ask... we also ran urine through the UV-Vis and it was the same spectrum whether the subject was drinking Guinness or Bud Light.

 

[Pappers_]

If you think adding RedX or Melanoidin malt makes your beer redder than any other malt that adds the same number of SRM units you are experiencing what is known as "Confimation Bias". Were you to put the beer into a spectrophotometer you would see no (or unappreciable) relative difference (yes, I have done this). It's like the pH 5.2 mash pH stabilizer. It works great if you don't own a pH meter.

So you're confirming that adding RedX or Melanoidin is one way to make your beer redder. Great.

 

[ajdelange]

In grad school, we ran Guinness and Bud Light through a spectrophotometer in the visible spectrum. Damn if they weren't the same spectra, albeit with significant differences in absorbance intensity.

The trick is to normalize by the absorption at 430 nm (the wavelength at which the SRM is measured).

Same with urine...

Yes. I meant to mention that beer which has been used, caramels, Sinamar etc all follow the CNS hypothesis.

 

[Norselord]

Fd&C Reds 40 And 3 should do the trick...

 

[m00ps]

I think the dress is blue

 

[corkybstewart]

I add crushed black patent or whatever other black malt I have on hand in the sparge, it gives a great red color with no flavor contribution.

 

[rhys333]

Yes, it would and some black patent will have the same effect as will a drop or 2 of Sinamar. Add SRM and you are adding red. This is inherent in the shape of the absorbtion spectrum: more light is transmitted at the red end of the spectrum than at the blue.

If you think adding RedX or Melanoidin malt makes your beer redder than any other malt that adds the same number of SRM units you are experiencing what is known as "Confimation Bias". Were you to put the beer into a spectrophotometer you would see no (or unappreciable) relative difference (yes, I have done this). It's like the pH 5.2 mash pH stabilizer. It works great if you don't own a pH meter.

I'm not experiencing confirmation bias, as I'm not discounting other possible ways of doing it. I just know that Munich and especially black malt work well in small quantities for red colour adjustment. Its just an observation on my part.

 

[jodell]

What did you end up doing for your brew??