Will going to a partial mash get rid of the extract twang?

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snowbum007

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I have brewed a few extract beers and have been generally disapointed in the results. My primary is empty (god forbid!) and I have seen a few threads on partial mash and am considering moving to that. I do not have the money to go AG but plan on obtaining AG equipment over time. My question is this. Can you still taste the extract twang with a partial mash? Does the quality of the beer go up a little or a lot? I'm considering doing a partial mash dopplebock and there is a lot of DME in the recipe I am looking at. I'd rather not waste the money and time if the result will still have that twang.
Thanks,
Kurt
 

histo320

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I have done only partials and they have turned out great. Not sure what you mean about the 'TWANG' I must not be familiar with that term (a noob).

You can always lower the amount of DME if you believe that it is too much.
 

Tenchiro

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I have never been able to taste any kind of twang in any of my extract beers. If you are getting a twangy taste as is I doubt it will go away with a partial mash. It may get covered up a little but I would bet that it will still be there.

What do you use for your extract?
 

GNBrews

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In my experience, no. Boiling extract for any real length of time gives me that "twang". But, you can avoid it though by boiling just the results of the partial mash and top-up water, adjusting the amount of bittering hops (less) for the reduced wort concentration, then adding the extract in the last 10-15mins of the boil. You can add the aroma hops in the recipes' called-for amounts and boiling times as your wort will be full concentration in the last 15 minutes of the boil.
 

PT934

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I switched to PM & full boil at the same time and the beer quality improved quite a bit and got rid of the "twang". I think its from the full boil as much as the PM.
 

ifishsum

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At the same time I started doing partial mashes, I also started doing late extract additions. I haven't tasted that extract twang since. My beer has improved 250% from before, so yes I think it will help you.
 

Beernewb

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if you're adjusting the amount of bittering hops, do you add the rest of the bittering hops with the aroma hops at the end, or do you change the recipe completely?

In my experience, no. Boiling extract for any real length of time gives me that "twang". But, you can avoid it though by boiling just the results of the partial mash and top-up water, adjusting the amount of bittering hops (less) for the reduced wort concentration, then adding the extract in the last 10-15mins of the boil. You can add the aroma hops in the recipes' called-for amounts and boiling times as your wort will be full concentration in the last 15 minutes of the boil.
 

histo320

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Can somebody please explain this "TWANG" taste? I hear twang I think of country music, I do not, I REPEAT DO NOT, want my beer tasting like country music sounds.
 

Yooper

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The answer I have is "sometimes". If you are using older LME, you may have the twang regardless of PM or not.

The key is freshness, and doing a PM. The grains flavor of a PM can really bring out the "malt" in a beer.

When we talk about extract twang, it's the flavor that you can recognize as extract. When a beer uses older LME, in particular, I can taste a beer and say, "Oh, he/she used extract in this beer". It's a certain extract-y flavor that is ok, but definitely recognizable as malt extract. I've had a few extract brews that haven't had this flavor, though- usually DME and usually added late in the boil. I know that there are brewpubs that only use extract, and that there are award winning beers of extract. So it's not every extract beer.
 

DeathBrewer

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I switched to PM & full boil at the same time and the beer quality improved quite a bit and got rid of the "twang". I think its from the full boil as much as the PM.
i think it also has to do with fermentation temps...always important but even more so with extract. i would describe extract twang as kind of a funky mouthfeel...caused by residual sugars and esters. just isn't clean or crisp.

i've had people that don't brew have said "it tastes like homebrew" when drinking beers i made with extract. not so with my AG and PM batches.
 

GNBrews

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At the same time I started doing partial mashes, I also started doing late extract additions. I haven't tasted that extract twang since. My beer has improved 250% from before, so yes I think it will help you.
I think the late extract addition is the key here. The partial mash will always taste better. ;-)

if you're adjusting the amount of bittering hops, do you add the rest of the bittering hops with the aroma hops at the end, or do you change the recipe completely?
No, there's no need to add the additional bittering hops unless you want them to contribute as aroma. The lower concentration boil leads to better utilization efficiency.

Use this calculator to determine your IBU with the full amount of hops the recipe calls for at the final gravity you anticipate. Then, change the gravity measurement to what you anticipate it will be with only the results from the partial mash plus the additional water used to make up 5gal total volume. Adjust the "mass added" column until you reach the same IBU as the recipe was initially.

JavaScript Bitterness Calculator

For example: I have a recipe that calls for 1oz of 4.4AA Hallertau for 60mins as bittering, and an estimated SG of 1.045. Plugging those numbers into the calculator, and using a boil time of 60mins, I get 16IBU. Say I plan to get 27 points from the mini mash, and make up the rest with 3.3lb LME. So, my 5gal boil consists of 1.027 concentration wort. I change the wort concentration field to 1.027, and lower the hops mass to 0.85oz to achieve the same 16 IBU.

You can also change the boil time fields, and note that you can add the same 1oz of hops as initially called for, but just boil for less time as well (~40mins for our 1.027 boil). This might be preferable to measuring out 0.85oz, as hops usually come in standard 1oz packages.
 

iXanadu

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No, there's no need to add the additional bittering hops unless you want them to contribute as aroma. The lower concentration boil leads to better utilization efficiency.

JavaScript Bitterness Calculator
Huh, I was under the impression that a larger boil delivers a better hops utilization. I interpreted that to mean I'll get more bitterness boiling a ounce of hops in 4 gallons for 45 minutes, than 2 gallons for 45 minutes.
 

Yooper

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Huh, I was under the impression that a larger boil delivers a better hops utilization. I interpreted that to mean I'll get more bitterness boiling a ounce of hops in 4 gallons for 45 minutes, than 2 gallons for 45 minutes.
Correct. The lower the SG of the wort, the better the hops utilization. There are many threads about that, and some of them are very helpful. I know that we've had many discussions about that, and it's also discussed in Basic Brewing Radio and in many other places.
 

iXanadu

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Correct. The lower the SG of the wort, the better the hops utilization. There are many threads about that, and some of them are very helpful. I know that we've had many discussions about that, and it's also discussed in Basic Brewing Radio and in many other places.
K, I get it now, lower concentration is the same as larger boil - its about the SG. Thanks for the clarification. All this time I thought it had to do with the volume of the boil not the gravity of the boil.
 

Yooper

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K, I get it now, lower concentration is the same as larger boil - its about the SG. Thanks for the clarification. All this time I thought it had to do with the volume of the boil not the gravity of the boil.
Right- it does seem like it's a volume thing because we're talking about "full boils" increasing the utilization. But it's not a volume issue, it's an SG issue. So, you could do a one gallon boil with only 1/2 pound extract (for example) and have great hops utilization- that's why some extract and PM brewers do the "late extract addition" method.
 

GNBrews

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Huh, I was under the impression that a larger boil delivers a better hops utilization. I interpreted that to mean I'll get more bitterness boiling a ounce of hops in 4 gallons for 45 minutes, than 2 gallons for 45 minutes.
You misinterpreted me. Note that I said *5 gal total volume*. The results of the partial mash (~2gal) are mixed with additional plain water to make a 5gal volume of low gravity wort (1.027 in my example). The extract is added near the end of the boil to increase the gravity to its final concentration.

Assuming both the 4gal and 2gal wort had the same SG and the hops were boiled for the same amount of time, the utilization percentage would be the same. The 2gal wort would obviously have higher IBU's though as there's less liquid to distribute all that bittering.
 

iXanadu

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You misinterpreted me. Note that I said *5 gal total volume*. The results of the partial mash (~2gal) are mixed with additional plain water to make a 5gal volume of low gravity wort (1.027 in my example). The extract is added near the end of the boil to increase the gravity to its final concentration.
Yeap - I did misinterpret you. Yooper set me straight. Because of the full-boil threads I read I misunderstood it to be a volume issue, not a SG issue. I'm good on this one now. Thanks to you and Yooper for the mentoring.
 
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