Will chilling with ice influence body, flavor, etc?

[spangltk]

First, sorry to be asking this question. I've googled and searched this board and after some reading haven't been able to find what I'm looking for. I know using ice is a risk to contamination and this has had to be covered before.

With my propane burner going out I'm forced to use my electric stove and boiling 6 gallons is not a reality. I'd much prefer to boil 3 gallons down to 2.5-2 then ice and top off to 5 gallons.

But my question is if how much that will hurt the body and flavor of my beer.

I know I'll have to watch for scorching and calculate the lower extraction rate I'll have with my hops.

 

[earwig]

If you are talking about putting ice directly into your beer, you would be better off just using an ice bath for each pot or using ice cold water. You can boil the water first and then cool, or just cool spring water.

 

[spangltk]

So it would be better to just use cold spring water?

Purchasing another pot and finding storage - might be cheaper to just buy another propane burner.

Thanks for the input.

 

[steinsato]

I have added ice directly to the wort in a pinch with no ill effects....that I could tell. It was store bought ice. You don't want to use too much cause it chills the wort much quicker than an ice bath. Other than contamination potential, I don't see how adding ice is any different than a regular partial boil and adding water.

 

[spangltk]

ah thanks - researching partial boil is helping me.

 

[earwig]

I personally would never trust ice to be "clean". I also just don't like how ice tastes/smells; go suck on an ice cube or smell a tray of ice and let me know what you think.

 

[spangltk]

I would buy store bought ice and distilled water. I read on this forum that ice sold in grocery stores has to be under FDA regulations. I also haven't heard of any outbreaks from ice/bottled water. I'm still looking into that though.

I'll monitor the temp I do this first - But I'm hoping that after the first bag (or two) of ice my wort will still be above 160. Killing/weakening the bacteria. The rest would be from distilled water or water from the tap.

 

[cclloyd]

For the first three years I brewed I did partial mash and boiled 3 gallons down to 2.5 (roughly) and topped off with iced bottled spring water. I would put three gallons in the freezer at the beginning of the brew process and by the time the boil was done the spring water in the freezer would have ice around the interior and was moving towards slushy status. I would sponge down the outside with star san and then cut the bottle and dump it into the wort. Three gallons of iced water would bring 2.5 gallons of boiling wort down to pitch temp within 2 minutes. I did this with at least 40 batches and never suffered an infection.

 

[spangltk]

Just had a chat about it with my sister in law in her last year of food chem at Purdue and thought I would share:

sis: freezing anything doesnt kill bacteria. it only prevents them from continuing to grow. once at room temperature the cells will divide again like normal. and yes ice is regulated by the FDA but that doesn't mean there isn't any bacteria on the ice. that just means the amount there isnt enough to cause any health problems. so its likely that you could contaminate your sample. the bacteria just wouldnt colonize or grow until back at room/refrigerated temps

me: what about 160F and above?

sis: 160F is the general rule of thumb for killing bacteria. at that point the protien in the cells are destroyed and they can no longer function.

freezing keeps the protien in it original form so once thawed the bacteria has no problem performing its normal functions again
but just for safe measure i might go up to 165F but thats just me

me: for how long?
it's not instant (<30 seconds) is it?

Sis: no thats fine. once it hits that temp the sample should be safe. just make sure that the temp is 160-165 throughout the whole product
i dont know how big your batch is or how your heating it so just make sure you dont have any cold pockets in your sample

 

[Hex]

Thanks Sis! Interesting re-affirmation of flash-pasteurization.

 

[earwig]

Many bacteria thrive up to 140 degrees so if your main concern is killing the bacteria with hot wort you may not accomplish this as well as you think. Anyway... like I said, my concern would be the taste/smell. I'm sure the wort would cover it up or overpower it, but its still there

 

[ghpeel]

When I did extract, I would boil water the night before, then throw it into a sanitized Tupperware container and freeze it overnight. I'd throw that ice directly into the kettle to cool it down. Worked great.