will 2 kegs "balance" on a common CO2 supply?

[odie]

I've got two kegs going right now and they are complete opposites on carbonation even though they are both linked together on the CO2 supply. #1 is almost total foam. #2 is almost flat, zero foam and not carbonation.

They are both running off the same CO2 regulator. 12psi. There is a 3 way manifold feeding each keg (one is shut off). There are no check valves or secondary regulators on this set up. 10ft 4mm EVA lines. Perlick type faucets.

Both kegs had been cellaring for over a year so I expect some difference in CO2 volumes from long term storage.

Both have been in place for a week in the current set up. Since the CO2 supply is common, I would expect which ever keg is more carbonated to bleed CO2 to the less carbonated keg until they are both the same volume of dissolved CO2 in the beer and head space pressure becomes equal. How long should this take? A week? A month?

Keg #1 was being served in another kegerator for a few weeks at 12psi own secondary regulator. It poured well. 10ft 4mm EVA line. Intertap style faucet.

When keg #1 was moved to the new kegerator it started being all foam. Even shutting off the CO2 manifold to isolate it from the other keg's pressure (or lack of it), I still get nothing but foam.

I'm hesitant to blame the Perlick.

Is this an issue of keg #1 CO2 constantly coming out of the beer because keg #2 has very little CO2 in the beer? And will just be like this until they balance pressures?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Two weeks or more, surface area in a corny is pretty small.

 

[Beholder]

Have to double checked your manifold does not have check valves? I didn’t think mine did, but discovered it after failing to bleed pressure from one leg to an open leg… would be worth a check.

If you confirm your manifold does have check valves, then it’s likely an overcarb on the keg that periodic bleeds can eliminate.

 

[odie]

I doubt it. It's a pretty basic splitter. ebay or amazon type. simple 1/4 turn ball valves on each output.

guess I just wait it out for them to balance?

The first keg poured fine until it shared the gas supply with the second "flat" keg.

 

[NotSure]

I have a similar set-up since I run a simple splitter off my CO2 tank. I'd be interested as to what types of beers are in each keg because that might have some influence on this.

Regarding keg #1, I've dry-hopped before and had a problem with foaminess due to hop material stuck in the posts. Plus, it could be hop creep causing foaminess if it's a hoppy beer as well - but I doubt you stored a hoppy beer for a year, but thought I'd mention it.

Regarding keg #2, if it's too full, the CO2 is being injected by the cross-section area of the inlet valve, not the cross-section area of the keg, so it'll be flat for ever.

Two weeks has been fine for me and I use about 10 psi at about 2C (35F). I don't think balancing would be the issue since the CO2 is holding back the pressure. I could be wrong though.

 

[odie]

Belgian tripel and quad. both aged over a year.

I really suspect the one with higher volume of CO2 is constantly releasing gas as the other absorbs it. Until they are almost equal. I can envision the CO2 moving freely between the two...very slowly...

 

[NotSure]

Belgian tripel and quad. both aged over a year.

I really suspect the one with higher volume of CO2 is constantly releasing gas as the other absorbs it. Until they are almost equal. I can envision the CO2 moving freely between the two...very slowly...

Well, if you're right.... on the upside, it'll save you some money on CO2.

 

[bracconiere]

i've developed a fear of my dip tubes....

 

[odie]

i've developed a fear of my dip tubes....

liquid or gas?

 

[bracconiere]

liquid or gas?

liquid, i found out if there's a leak in the keg at the post, raw co2 and get into my serving line while pouring....

 

[odie]

hmmm...well I can observe the lines...10 ft of EVA...it's all liquid but as soon as I open the faucet the entire line appears to foam. well as I recall..

 

[bracconiere]

hmmm...well I can observe the lines...10 ft of EVA...it's all liquid but as soon as I open the faucet the entire line appears to foam. well as I recall..

which could be a bad seal on the dip tube, and as the beer moves the gas is getting into the line from the keg...at least it's what i've heard, and become a concern of mine.

 

[DuncB]

Measure the pressure in each keg with a gauge. See how it changes. Could connect the overcarbed keg direct to the ok carbed via gas to gas and leave the regulator out of the equation might be an option. Surprised @day_trippr not thrown advice hat in to the ring.
Not sure you have a diptube issue as you say it was fine before the other keg came into the equation.
There isn't balance at the moment though.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

I had this problem also I found a used triple regulator perlic setup on ebay and it made them so much better. I have a dual regulator coming off the tank so I can have 4 different pressures which I usually don't need until my big beers get hooked up in the early winter. With my portable dual keg Garbage can / cooler keggerators I just stick with beers that like the same pressure Since I just have a single regulator on those setups. Check valves help but eventually the beer that needs more pressure starts to go flat and you have to do some overnight maintenance by pumping up the pressure on that 1 beer. Least that's my experience.

 

[Dgallo]

If you switch over to Duo Tight fitting and EvaBarrier lines you can always through on the In-line regulators. They are only $8 bucks. They don’t have a gauge in them so you’ll have to dial it in through experience but it works well
https://www.morebeer.com/products/duotight-inline-regulator.html

 

[Jayjay1976]

Measure the pressure in each keg with a gauge. See how it changes. Could connect the overcarbed keg direct to the ok carbed via gas to gas and leave the regulator out of the equation might be an option. Surprised @day_trippr not thrown advice hat in to the ring.
Not sure you have a diptube issue as you say it was fine before the other keg came into the equation.
There isn't balance at the moment though.

I love this hack, two gas disconnects and a length of tubing, no regulators or check valves to get in the way. I'd let them sit a couple of weeks like that in the back of my keezer.

 

[odie]

Here are some pics...everyone loves pictures...

The first is the offending beer (light color) soon after it's tapped. The line is full liquid but air pockets rapidly appear.

the second and third picture was after it sat for a while...the line is now mostly air pockets..

the final picture is the "other" beer (med color). No air pockets. but it's still very low on the carbonation.

both these kegs are on a shared CO2 source. Single PSI setting. No separate regulator or check valve.

please ignore the other two beers (dark color) pictured. They are on a separate system (nitro) and not connected.

 

[DuncB]

Do you have a pressure gauge that you can measure the pressure in both of those kegs?
That will help, but it seems that one is overcarbed and the other under as you realise. Once you have that info you could run the undercarb at higher pressure to try and get it to the right vols. Whilst letting gas out of the overcarbed periodically until it is at the right level.

This assumes that the gauge readings show an under and over carb situation when looked at on the carbonation chart.

These issues are a real pain, especially as you have waited so long to get it in the keezer.

 

[odie]

Do you have a pressure gauge that you can measure the pressure in both of those kegs?
That will help, but it seems that one is overcarbed and the other under as you realise. Once you have that info you could run the undercarb at higher pressure to try and get it to the right vols. Whilst letting gas out of the overcarbed periodically until it is at the right level.

follow the plumbing....they are both exactly the same pressure. The same head space pressure which is all a pressure gauge will tell you. They cannot be set at different pressures since there is only a single shared regulator, like most setups.

I'm thinking that the first keg, since it was "overcarbed" but on an isolated regulator, that it was not able to gas off and thus stayed liquid in the lines. So it poured fine in the other kegerator.

When that keg was put on a shared CO2 source, then the excess pressure in beer#1 was able to escape the headspace and flow backwards into the headspace of flat beer #2. The regulator being set below beer #1 head space pressure is not feeding anything yet since beer #1 is gassing off. Since beer #2 is nearly flat, it's absorbing the beer #1 gas off as it slowly bleeds. When a beer is tapped, there is a sudden decrease in system pressure, enough to change the active "bleed out" to a temporary "break out".

As both kegs grow closer to equilibrium, the issue will lessen until it's resolved? Well that is my current theory...subject to change...lol

 

[micraftbeer]

I was studying your pictures and thinking about this. Over-carbonation should give you lots of foam when the beer comes out of the tap. All that dissolved CO2 liberates itself from the liquid, as it finds itself in a new low-pressure situation.

But I think the fact you're getting "air pockets" or "CO2 gas pockets" means you have either a leak somewhere that sucks air in as beer flows by, or your pickup tube is not properly sealed and is sucking in CO2 gas as the beer flows.

So maybe o-ring that seals dip tube to the keg, o-ring or crack in your ball lock, crack or damaged o-ring in your DuoTight. If you're using floating dip tubes, I've had troubles from time to time with the tube getting trapped such that it sits just above/at the liquid line, and then sucks out a mix of beer and CO2.

 

[odie]

But I think the fact you're getting "air pockets" or "CO2 gas pockets" means you have either a leak somewhere that sucks air in as beer flows by, or your pickup tube is not properly sealed and is sucking in CO2 gas as the beer flows.

I don't see how a leak would suck any air in as the system is under pressure. Beer would be leaking out but not air leaking in.

The pick up tube theory I'm scratching my head...again, I would think a bad or not seated o-ring would allow beer and/or CO2 out and be spilling everywhere. The outside is dry. I need more thinking about how everything is sealed, I mean which o-ring does what...

Are you thinking there is a slight gap between the dip tube lip and the o-ring? I guess the dip tube "missed" the bottom dimple and is touching the bottom and pushing up against the poppet spring, thus lifting itself slightly off the o-ring?

 

[Dr_Jeff]

So what happens is, CO2 from the headspace of the gets into the beer stream creating the foam. It seals "well enough" so that neither CO2 or beer leak from the keg, but the little void allows the CO2 into the beer creating foam, it's a common problem.

My suggestion would be to disconnect the gas to the foamy keg only send gas to the flat keg.
Unhook the flat keg first allowing it to come back to equilibrium, leave it hooked up for several days.
Then disconnect it and hook up the flat keg, insuring that there is sufficient headspace in the keg so that it can carbonate, just drink two or three pints.

You said that it poured fine in the other kegerator, it's doubtful that the stem seal went bad by simply moving the keg to another kegerator.
Another thing you can try is, move the foamy keg back to the original kegerator and see if the problem follows the keg. Now with the keg possibly being partially carbonated, you may get some foam, due to an incorrect carbonation level, but most likely the beer would serve correctly but be slightly under carbonated.

While the keg is disconnected from the kegerator in question, disassemble the quick connect and make sure that there is not any hop debris in there causing turbulence. Not likely the cause, but it's worth a check. Now on the same track, when you moved the keg, you could have stirred up some debris in the keg which is now trapped in the poppit creating a similar issue.

 

[odie]

You said that it poured fine in the other kegerator, it's doubtful that the stem seal went bad by simply moving the keg to another kegerator.

well it seemed fine but I never observed the lines. It did have a good head on it but settled down shortly. I only assumed it was a "system" issue since the first kegerator has all separate regulators and different faucets.

I'm thinking to de-pressurize the keg, pull the dip tube and re-seat it.

 

[micraftbeer]

The parts I mention are all sealing points for the beer flow, that I would check. Depending on the type of failure at the seal, you could have it seal properly with everything static (and you have beer pressure pushing out against a seal), but leak when flowing beer (and the flow of beer in the line creates a pressure flow that sucks the seal inward).

It just sticks out to me that you've got giant gas bubbles in the line. It seems like it's either air or CO2 that's getting sucked in when the beer is flowing. An overcarbed beer seems like it would stay overcarbed until it made its way to a low pressure area like into your cup that's open to atmospheric pressure.

 

[bracconiere]

I don't see how a leak would suck any air in as the system is under pressure. Beer would be leaking out but not air leaking in.

it's the o-ring the goes under the post, and at top of the dip tube. my understanding, is when the beer is flowing, co2 can get mixed into the flow of beer?


from the head space at the top inside the keg.....

 

[bracconiere]

I'm thinking to de-pressurize the keg, pull the dip tube and re-seat it.

do you have replacement dip tube o-rings on hand?

 

[odie]

pulled the dip tube...That thing has a couple bends in it which leads me to believe the keg post might be bent. Sometimes I have kegs that when you drop the dip tube in the pick up end does not fit inside the dimple at the bottom so you gotta tweek the tube a little to get it in the depression.

But this tube was bent more than I expected. It's also been kegged for over 16 months so I've long forgotten about the tube being bent.

Anyway, the o-ring did look a little deformed. They don't last forever. I had another o-ring lying around and swapped it out. Put the tube back in and checked to make sure it looked seated properly and put the post fitting back on.

Still getting CO2 in the serving line. Pulled the CO2 line and put a gauge on it. Will see if there is an external leak. If nothing then it's something internal?

 

[odie]

well another issue just surfaced...the faucets leak at the top fitting...

I slipped a silicone tube over the nozzle to fill a couple bottles...It makes a seal when you push the bottle all the way up so that you can "counter pressure" fill and keep the foam down by keeping the bottle head space under pressure.

Works great on my "intertap" style faucets. These "perlick" style faucets suddenly spit beer out of the top fitting where the handle pivots when the bottle pressurized.

I don't know if that is what is causing my original issue but these "perlicks" are going by-by...