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Rob2010SS

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I keep seeing posts on social media with regards to "Beat my personal grain to glass record!", "Only XX days from grain to glass", etc. It seems people are focused on speed too much, no? Shouldn't we be focused on the quality of the product? Am I missing something, should I be focusing on speed?

I know that if you cut days out of your process as a commercial brewer, it can drastically increase how many BBL's you put out in a year, which ultimately means more profit. I just watched a video by Avery brewing where they were talking about a piece of equipment that took something like 4 days out of their process and it increased their BBL count significantly.

I don't know... I guess I'm just more focused on making sure the beers we make taste good. I have no intent of trying to cut X amount of days out of my process as a home brewer.

Do you guys focus on how long from grain to glass?
 

S-Met

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Why make cars that go 150mph when the max speed limit is 75? Because we can.

While I mirror your sentiments of why rush, there is no denying that some hoomanz are competitive in nature. Doing something for the "bragging rights" or maybe just proof to themselves that they can do it.
 

Joxer

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Coming from a distilling background, albeit sugar washes mostly, I've decided to try brewing. Distilling can be a pretty fast ferment, however I ended up with fermenting taking almost 2 weeks to 1.0x and let it sit another 1-2 weeks to settle. What's the hurry?
 

dawn_kiebawls

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I let my brews run their course, on their own schedules. Not to mention I'm building my sour pipeline right now so I'm not in a hurry.

However, if someone could figure out how to save a bunch of time with carbonating bottles I'm all ears...I'm looking at you, cider that I just bottled last night but want to drink right now!
 

VikeMan

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I keep seeing posts on social media with regards to "Beat my personal grain to glass record!", "Only XX days from grain to glass", etc. It seems people are focused on speed too much, no? Shouldn't we be focused on the quality of the product? Am I missing something, should I be focusing on speed?
I dunno, but it might be the same one upsmanship thing that makes people want to pack as many "adjuncts*" into an "adjunct*" stout as possible.

*which usually aren't actually adjuncts
 

bracconiere

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i got three empty kegs, three full ones, and i'm going to let this baynus ride to 1.000000...ah hell, what ver it is tomorrow, i dropped a hydro in it a bit ago and it's at 1.004.....and bubbling still, but if i don't get in the fridge and cold at least by tomorrow i'll run out of drink! don't tell me you're a square, and not trying to be cool like me? ;) :D :mug:

edit: i brewed it on the 20th.....for the record 9-20-20......it was 1.068 down to 1.004 in two days with wine yeast! got my new burst crab tee i'm anxious to try out...fan in the hole i drilled in the top freezer blowing cold air into the bottom part where the kegs are.....LOL, to each thier own....
 
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Yooper

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I don't rush my beer, but a well made beer doesn't take all that long for most regular ales. If I dryhop an IPA, I'm usually packaging by day 10-14. Is that rushing? Well, if the beer is done by day 5, and dryhopped on day 7 and packaged at day 12, then it's still done. It's not going to get "doner".

But I tend to use flocculant yeast, quality ingredients, temperature control, and good mashing procedures. So if the beer is done, it's still done 10 days later. But what's the benefit?
 

Yooper

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I remember a number of years ago we did a beer swap, 10der and mild. We swapped 10 day old beers, all milds. They were great!
The key there was they were lower OG beers, and we all kegged and bottled from the keg. So we were drinking beers at day 10. There is nothing wrong with a well made beer that is ready to drink, whether it's day 10 or day 30.
 

Sammy86

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Most of rush comes from you NEIPA folks there i said it, ill be the bad guy and take the heat.

Im a 14 day primary guy, 3 days of cold crash w/gelatin and keg on day 18...10 days conditioning in the keg and the beers are solid...i have found the majority of my beers (american wheat, lagers, esbs, ambers) are significantly better tasting after a full month in the keg however im still grain to glass in 28 days.
 

Beermeister32

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Brewers spend huge amount of money on equipment and pick their materials carefully. The brews are done with precision.

The one area many wish to overlook or speed past is the improvements the beer undergoes through the aging/lagering process. Unless there is a rush to experience fresh hops in an IPA, most other beers really do improve with about a 90 day lagering period, even up to 180 days for bigger beers like Oktoberfests.
 

Immocles

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Brewers spend huge amount of money on equipment and pick their materials carefully. The brews are done with precision.

The one area many wish to overlook or speed past is the improvements the beer undergoes through the aging/lagering process. Unless there is a rush to experience fresh hops in an IPA, most other beers really do improve with about a 90 day lagering period, even up to 180 days for bigger beers like Oktoberfests.
Ugh, I’d love to have that patience. I agree though. I start cracking bottles too early and then panic and conserve the last five or six. I’m always vastly more impressed with those. Heading into lager season, I’ve made an agreement with myself (and wife) to stock the fridge with commercial beers so I can let the magic really happen
 

MrPowers

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There is a practical reason for speed as well. My lagers are always transferred to kegs on day 5-7 for spunding. Spunding has a few positive benefits over force carbonation. 1. Naturally produced CO2 by the yeast is 100% pure (meaning free of oxygen). 2. Active fermentation will help to scrub any oxygen picked up during the transfer or oxygen remaining in the kegs headspace. 3. Yeast produce more glycerol when under pressure which aids in mouthfeel/body.

Since the beer is already carbonated on day 6-8, the only limit to when you can drink it is when it has dropped clear.
 

Beermeister32

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I keep about 6 kegs lagering at a time. The oldest currently is an Oktoberfest brewed on 3/16/20. The improvements from aging are great. Before the beer renaissance, most commercial brewers would do a 90-180 day aging on beers. Some would even advertise it.

You can always drink 1-2 week green beer if that is your taste. Part of the hobby is making the best beer possible and that generally requires some aging.
 

LokiM4

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I don't rush my beer, but a well made beer doesn't take all that long for most regular ales. If I dryhop an IPA, I'm usually packaging by day 10-14. Is that rushing? Well, if the beer is done by day 5, and dryhopped on day 7 and packaged at day 12, then it's still done. It's not going to get "doner".

But I tend to use flocculant yeast, quality ingredients, temperature control, and good mashing procedures. So if the beer is done, it's still done 10 days later. But what's the benefit?
I remember a number of years ago we did a beer swap, 10der and mild. We swapped 10 day old beers, all milds. They were great!
The key there was they were lower OG beers, and we all kegged and bottled from the keg. So we were drinking beers at day 10. There is nothing wrong with a well made beer that is ready to drink, whether it's day 10 or day 30.
As usual the wisdom of Yooper rings true. I use quality ingredients, pitch right and have my beers finish in 4-6 days typically, including lagers. 3-5 if I keg and spund. Once there, a few days spunding and at d rest temps and in the kegerator they go. It’s not a rush or a race to anything if they are done at that point.

Its “rushing” if the beer isn’t done with one stage of the process and you move to the next step too early. It’s NOT rushing if the beer is ready and the succeeding piece of equipment is empty, clean and ready for the brew.

I brew my next batch when my kegs get light-ish, I can only serve from 2, maybe 3 if I move a near empty one to the fridge on a picnic tap, so I don’t have a huge “pipeline” of supply so I brew when I have an opening coming up.

It’s not a race to fill the spot, but as many projects and hobbies as I have, kids, work, etc., etc.I prefer not to waste time at things and be efficient with my process.

All that said I like the beer I brew and folks I serve it to always come back for more so it’s arguably not poorly made or bad quality as a result of my processes.
 

madscientist451

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I keep seeing posts on social media with regards to "Beat my personal grain to glass record!", "Only XX days from grain to glass", etc. It seems people are focused on speed too much, no? Shouldn't we be focused on the quality of the product? Am I missing something, should I be focusing on speed?


Do you guys focus on how long from grain to glass?
Nope, I don't worry about it, but I've been playing around with Imperial Hothead yeast and that strain finishes super fast. I've heard the other "Norwegian Farmhouse" strains you can get are also fast fermenters.
So yeah, some people talk about how fast you can get a beer done, but I think its just something people do for the heck of it, to see if it can be done and how the beer comes out.
I've still got a carboy of Helles I brewed this spring for summer drinking in my spare fridge, should be well lagered by now I suppose....better get it kegged up while we still have warm days
:cask:
 

Yooper

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4-6 days for a lager? Really?

Mine take 12-14 days generally to complete 48-50F primary and then ramp up to a 66F D rest and hold for a week or two. So in most cases keg transfer happens at about the 4 week point.
Yes, my lagers will often finish up in less than a week, and often no diacetyl rest is done, or it's done in a day or two and then I rack to the keg for lagering. So it's in the keg at about day 10-14 or so.
 
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Rob2010SS

Rob2010SS

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Its “rushing” if the beer isn’t done with one stage of the process and you move to the next step too early. It’s NOT rushing if the beer is ready and the succeeding piece of equipment is empty, clean and ready for the brew.
I think this is my problem - I jump to conclusions. When I see people make these comments about grain to glass in short time frames, I jump to the conclusion that they skipped something or have a shoddy process, or how can it be ready that fast. NEIPAs are a big one. I see a lot of people rushing to get those grain to glass very quickly and I always assume that they've gotta be loaded with hop burn or diacetyl when they're done that fast.

I suppose it's on me for making assumptions and I shouldn't worry about their process. If they like the beer, that's all that matters. The only process that should matter to me is my own.

I did actually trade with someone from Instagram who always talked about speed from grain to glass. They sent me a couple of NEIPA's that they brewed and man, gotta say, the hop burn was horrible. Maybe that past experience is part of my problem as well...
 

MrPowers

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4-6 days for a lager? Really?

Mine take 12-14 days generally to complete 48-50F primary and then ramp up to a 66F D rest and hold for a week or two. So in most cases keg transfer happens at about the 4 week point.
If it’s taking 2 weeks to complete primary then you need to pitch more yeast, add nutrient, oxygenate more, make a vitality starter (or all of the above). If you pitch enough healthy yeast and give them a good environment to work in, lager yeast shouldn’t take any longer to work than ales.
 

LokiM4

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4-6 days for a lager? Really?

Mine take 12-14 days generally to complete 48-50F primary and then ramp up to a 66F D rest and hold for a week or two. So in most cases keg transfer happens at about the 4 week point.
Yes, my lagers will often finish up in less than a week, and often no diacetyl rest is done, or it's done in a day or two and then I rack to the keg for lagering. So it's in the keg at about day 10-14 or so.
Mine do as well Yooper, yes primary ferment in 4-6 days.

Though I will fully admit that I strongly eschew a lot of “traditionally accepted” lager brewing practices and have tuned my process and practices based on trial and error, my equipment and preferences etc.

How I (Yooper or anyone else) brew may not be applicable or amenable to yours or your ideals for brewing, be they more traditional, some hybrid based on your equipment or preferences for taste, etc.

The bottom line is to brew how you get the beers you like, I do and I hope your processes and procedures give you the beers you enjoy.
 

LokiM4

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If it’s taking 2 weeks to complete primary then you need to pitch more yeast, add nutrient, oxygenate more, make a vitality starter (or all of the above). If you pitch enough healthy yeast and give them a good environment to work in, lager yeast shouldn’t take any longer to work than ales.
Agreed.
 

Beermeister32

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Even with correct pitching rates, nutrients and oxygenation, lager yeasts take more time to do the job at their intended temperature range than ales.

If you are trying to speed things up by changing the fermentation temperature you might get more speed.

Lagers take more fermentation time than ales.
 

MrPowers

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Even with correct pitching rates, nutrients and oxygenation, lager yeasts take more time to do the job at their intended temperature range than ales.

If you are trying to speed things up by changing the fermentation temperature you might get more speed.

Lagers take more fermentation time than ales.
It might take a lager yeast 4-5 days to finish with a proper pitch held at 48F. In wort of that same gravity it might take a proper pitch of ale yeast 3-4 days to finish when held at its' proper fermentation temperature (depending on the strain). So, very slightly longer yes, but it should not take 2 weeks.
 

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It might take a lager yeast 4-5 days to finish with a proper pitch held at 48F. In wort of that same gravity it might take a proper pitch of ale yeast 3-4 days to finish when held at its' proper fermentation temperature (depending on the strain). So, very slightly longer yes, but it should not take 2 weeks.
Yes, that's been my experience as well. I ferment most of my lagers at 48-50F, and it doesn't take much longer. However, I do pitch plenty of yeast at fermentation temperature.
 

MrPowers

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A 4-day lager fermentation at normal 48-50F temperature would indicate a huge overpitching rate. This can lead to off flavors.
That would be using a pitch rate of 2-2.5m cells/ml/plato. That would be a proper pitch rate for standard gravity lagers with cold fermentations and does not increase risk of off flavors.
 

Beermeister32

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Like I said, there is always ways of speeding things along. Like the OP said, Why the Rush. I think best practices would dictate that you give the lager more time to finish than 4 days and rush it to the serving kegs.

Of course some people develop a taste for green beer...
 

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I certainly understand why folks get into seeing how quickly they can turn around a batch. They've discovered an interesting field of knowledge, now they're exploring its boundary conditions. How far, how fast, how short, how tall, how deep, these are all questions that hairless apes find interesting.

Back in the 90s, I went through several phases of how hoppy, how big, how small, then how fast I could brew. Eventually, I settled on how lazy as my lodestar and I'm still striving to make advancements in this area of homebrewing.
 

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Like I said, there is always ways of speeding things along. Like the OP said, Why the Rush. I think best practices would dictate that you give the lager more time to finish than 4 days and rush it to the serving kegs.

Of course some people develop a taste for green beer...
I don't do it to "speed things up"- I pitch the proper amount of yeast for the OG of my beer at the proper fermentation temperature and get great results.

I don't have a "taste for green beer".

Maybe it'd be more fair to say that I do things differently than you do, and I am happy with my beer and my competition medals. No need for tossing in a snide remark. I (and others who do more of what I do) have been very respectful of your thoughts and opinions.
 

MrPowers

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Like I said, there is always ways of speeding things along. Like the OP said, Why the Rush. I think best practices would dictate that you give the lager more time to finish than 4 days and rush it to the serving kegs.

Of course some people develop a taste for green beer...
I think I explained the benefits for why you would want to transfer lagers into the serving keg (spund) at the tail end of a healthy primary in my initial reply. It's not rushing it into the keg if it's actually beneficial to the end product. You do still need to wait for the beer to drop clear, which may take an additional 1-3 weeks. But it can do that, while it is already carbonated, in an oxygen free environment.

Modern breweries have stopped using the longer aging periods because they have discovered, through different scientific breakthroughs, that by changing certain brewing methods/techniques they have actually been able to improve the quality and shelf life of their products.
 

LokiM4

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I don't do it to "speed things up"- I pitch the proper amount of yeast for the OG of my beer at the proper fermentation temperature and get great results.

I don't have a "taste for green beer".

Maybe it'd be more fair to say that I do things differently than you do, and I am happy with my beer and my competition medals. No need for tossing in a snide remark. I (and others who do more of what I do) have been very respectful of your thoughts and opinions.
I think I explained the benefits for why you would want to transfer lagers into the serving keg (spund) at the tail end of a healthy primary in my initial reply. It's not rushing it into the keg if it's actually beneficial to the end product. You do still need to wait for the beer to drop clear, which may take an additional 1-3 weeks. But it can do that, while it is already carbonated, in an oxygen free environment.

Modern breweries have stopped using the longer aging periods because they have discovered, through different scientific breakthroughs, that by changing certain brewing methods/techniques they have actually been able to improve the quality and shelf life of their products.
Meanwhile most of us have yet to acquire a taste for stale beer-despite the major players at BMC trying to sell us on it. We prefer it fresh and at its peak taste, aroma, etc.
 

bracconiere

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just so people can get a kick out my brewing style, i brewed on 9-20-20, fermented with wine yeast at 81-85f....i'm pretty sure it's down to 1.000 by now....i got a fancy co2 tee off my new tank.....it's like 10' long so while i'm shaking my kegs at 50psi for a total of 1.3oz's of co2, it should be good to go tomorrow morning when it's cold.....(not to bring the FB crowd here, just try to point out...."i don't have a facebook account, but if i did i'd kick all their asses!" ;) lol
 

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I like to ferment on the lower end of the temp range. It takes a bit longer to complete that way, but I don't have anywhere to be, and I have plenty of beer around for the extra week or two.
 

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I like to ferment on the lower end of the temp range. It takes a bit longer to complete that way, but I don't have anywhere to be, and I have plenty of beer around for the extra week or two.
I tend to agree, I also monitor the temperature from the outside of the ferm bucket, so this helps with the temperature rise inside the vessel. Even then, a healthy pitch still goes through quickly, 5 to 10 days depending on lag.
 
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