Why do two different recipes, taste exactly the same?

[PaulStat]

Hi Guys,

Perhaps you can help me understand, why when they're quite different

First one brewed back in November which I called Brithemian Blonde

23L Batch OG 1046

4250gms Marris Otter
250gms Pilsner
40gms Goldings (4.5%) 90 mins
25gms Czech Saaz (2.8%) 15 mins
15gms Goldings (4.5%) 5 mins

Safale S-04 yeast

Second one brewed in the on the 13/5 which I called Hippity Hoppity IPA

23L Batch OG 1050

4660gms Marris Otter
140gms Dark Crystal Malt
45gms Wheat malt
19gms Target (9.6%) FWH
10gms Bramling Cross (5.5%) FWH
48gms Bramling Cross (5.5%) 15 min from end
25gms Goldings (4.5%) Steep
20gms Fuggles (4.8%) Steep

Safale S-04 yeast

Is it the MO basically giving the majority of the flavour? I don't understand why they are so similar.

 

[mkling]

The malt profiles for these really are similar and dominated by the MO. On the first beer, the 250gr of Pils (1/2 lb) isn't enough to add anything noticeable to ~9.5lbs of MO. For the second brew, again, the amounts of other malts that you're adding are low enough that they aren't going to add much different character (~1/4 lb crystal & 1/10 lb wheat) to ~10.25lb of MO. So both will be dominated by the MO withy pretty similar gravities.

Additionally, both are using mostly very typical British hops, so while there are some differences in hop profiles, they aren't very dramatic. The second beer does have higher IBUs. I don't have all the details on boil volume & whatnot, but the first comes out roughly to 30 IBU whereas the 2nd comes out closer to 45 IBUs. That should be noticeable in the taste profile. Also, both use the same yeast strain.

So, it isn't so surprising that they're similar. Part of what you're also tasting is your "brewhouse character"; the flavors that come out brewing the way you uniquely brew.

 

[PaulStat]

The malt profiles for these really are similar and dominated by the MO. On the first beer, the 250gr of Pils (1/2 lb) isn't enough to add anything noticeable to ~9.5lbs of MO. For the second brew, again, the amounts of other malts that you're adding are low enough that they aren't going to add much different character (~1/4 lb crystal & 1/10 lb wheat) to ~10.25lb of MO. So both will be dominated by the MO withy pretty similar gravities.

Additionally, both are using mostly very typical British hops, so while there are some differences in hop profiles, they aren't very dramatic. The second beer does have higher IBUs. I don't have all the details on boil volume & whatnot, but the first comes out roughly to 30 IBU whereas the 2nd comes out closer to 45 IBUs. That should be noticeable in the taste profile. Also, both use the same yeast strain.

So, it isn't so surprising that they're similar. Part of what you're also tasting is your "brewhouse character"; the flavors that come out brewing the way you uniquely brew.

Yeah I'd say the main difference is in the bitterness, thanks for the explanation I'm slowly but surely starting to understand recipe formation, I suppose if you have a grain which is 95% or more of the total grain bill then it will dominate quite a bit.

Is there a handy link somewhere where it recommends grain ratios and what the recommended max %'s for them are?

 

[mkling]

Download BrewSmith. You can use it free for about a month,then it's $20 for a legal copy. I resisted for awhile, but it probably is the best $20 I've ever spent on anything for brewing. Also, look in the Recipe Database section of this site, lots of recipes categorized by styles. Should help you alot.

 

[eschatz]

If you want to understand recipe formation you should get Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels. It tells you what the makeup of most beer styles is (the amounts and types of grains/hops/yeast). It totally changed my brewing.