Why do my bottles keep losing carbonation? I can't figure this out!

[BrewN00b]

I almost exclusively buy my beer kits from Austin Home Brew, and I always buy the bottle caps that they offer for an additional $1.49 (or so). When I bottle I use a standard big, bright, red double handled bottle capper that came with my home brew kit that I had bought from Home wine making supply and home brew supply available on-line at Midwest Homebrewing Supplies. Search for wine recipes and beer recipes.

It seems like the carbonation starts escaping around the 5 week mark or so, and by 3 months most of my bottles are totally flat. When I cap I make sure I apply even and firm pressure to both handles, and they seem to be on even and snug. I can not figure out why the hell this is happening. Is the capped a gigantic POS, or are the bottle caps I am getting from AHS cheaply made, thus making a less than satisfactory seal?

I like my beer, but I can't see me drinking a 5 gallon batch by myself in a few months, as I tend to limit myself to two beers a night, so drinking them faster is not a logical solution. Besides, I want my beer to age and get better, especially my high gravity beers.

Any ideas? I would love to keg, but it is quite expensive purchasing all the proper parts for multiple batches. I can not afford, nor justify such an expenditure.

 

[woollybugger2]

when you cap them do you see the impression of the capper on the cap?

its a circle or semi circle 1/4 of the way in from the edge....


if you don't see them then you may not be pressing down on the wings hard enough...

I've use one and have not had any issues with losing carbonation....

 

[nallanrex]

Are the bottles the twist off kind? Ive heard they don't seal as good as the pry off style.




-Nick

 

[BrewN00b]

Are the bottles the twist off kind? Ive heard they don't seal as good as the pry off style.




-Nick

Actually, I DO have a couple screw off from a beer that I didn't know had a twist off, but oddly, those are the ones that tend to stay carbed. Odd, I know.

As far as pressure, I try to put as much gorilla torque on them with out breaking anything. I will try to more vigilant about seeing if the flat beers had the telltale mark of pressure from the capper. You are referring to a circlular impression on the top of the cap left from the magnet that holds the cap in place in the capper, correct?

 

[dantodd]

The cup that has the magnet on the capper and pushes down over the bottle should be adjustable. You can screw it in and out from the frame. This is how you control the amount of pressure it applies to the cap. There may also be a metal "gate" thing where the capper grabs the bottle. This is often reversible for different diameter bottles, make sure you are using the correct size.

If you want to confirm what's going on, store you bottles upside down for a little while and it should become obvious which are leaking and how much. (Do this on a surface that won't be damaged by beer.)

 

[wolfstar]

Are you boiling your caps? My LHBS Suggested against this as he claims that this can damage the seal on the cap. I am not sure if this is true or not, perhaps someone with more experience can chime in...

 

[schweaty]

Are you boiling your caps? My LHBS Suggested against this as he claims that this can damage the seal on the cap. I am not sure if this is true or not, perhaps someone with more experience can chime in...

Yep, this is absolutely true. I used to boil my caps and about four batches ago started experiencing bottles with no carbonation. The adhesive doesn't hold up really well to boiling temps and can be ruined. I'd suggest just soaking them in sanitizer right until you are about to use them. It's worked for me and I haven't had a flat bottle since.

 

[elkdog]

Yep, this is absolutely true. I used to boil my caps and about four batches ago started experiencing bottles with no carbonation. The adhesive doesn't hold up really well to boiling temps and can be ruined. I'd suggest just soaking them in sanitizer right until you are about to use them. It's worked for me and I haven't had a flat bottle since.

+1 to not boiling caps- I soak them in starsan while I'm filling the bottles.

Also, when your resources allow, a bench capper is a nice improvement over a wing capper, imo. It'll cap twist-off bottles (not that you can twist off those caps, but it'll seal them), you can assure uniform pressure, and it feels more secure when you're capping. Not a necessity by any stretch, but a nice upgrade if, like me, you'll be bottling for a while.

 

[beerocd]

No one has mentioned spinning the bottle 90* and re-crimping the bottles. Have you tried this to make sure it is sealed all the way around?

-OCD

 

[JeepDiver]

Are you using US bottles? Some of the overseas ones have slightly smaller opening, and don't seal as well.

 

[Redbeard5289]

Also some of the oversea bottles have a double lip on them making capping them almost impossible with a wing capper.

Case in Point:
My brother gave me a 12 pack of Czech (sp?) Beer Bottles and didn't think nothing of it until after I washed and sanatized them and started to bottle. Got half of them filled and started to cap them with my neighbor's double wing capper. Talk about fustrating! I ending up pouring them into new US bottles and capping them.
But I will have my revenge: I rewashed the Czech bottles and plan to give them back to brother... ha ha ha

 

[bigdug]

you can also put a balloon over a capped bottle to see if you are losing pressure. If the balloon changes volume you are not getting a proper seal.

 

[BrewN00b]

This is all good information, thank you. I do not ever boil my caps, I simply soak them in sanitizer. I did not realize my wing capper could be adjustable, I will look into this to see if I can up the pressure. I am going to have a bottling extravaganza today when I bottle up a batch of Apfelwein and a Summer Saison.

 

[Hang Glider]

Picture difficulties -


Super Agata Bench Cappers are awesome.

 

[amh0001]

I also have found that some bottles, such as the green bottles have a much shorter lip under the mouth compaired to regular brown bottles. Brown bottles such as Sam Adams have about an inch under the mouth were the lip protrudes. The green ones such as Dos E. Have only about 1/4 under.

I noticed when trying to cap the shorter lip bottles, the wingcapper has nothing to grab on to lower down, and made my caps loose. Make sure your using the correct ones.

Hope this helps!

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

+1 on rotating and making sure you get a good full round impression on the top of the bottle.

Reading this thread I went and looked at my old red standard capper, bought around 15 years ago. It is totally none adjustable in any sense. Everything is solid metal and rivets.
Having said that, I have had no problems with loosing carbonation, while I boil water I take it off the heat and start cooling before I throw the caps in. Theory has always been hot enough to kill the really bad stuff but not hot enough to mess them up. I think I will move to just sanitizer, who says old dogs can't learn new tricks.
I have found many bottles that are just a screwy top size, most of them large bombers from Japan or other Asian countries.
Best of luck and I hope you can figure out whats wrong.

 

[rico567]

For a year after I started brewing, I bottled with the "Red Baron" wing capper that came with my kit- no problems. After that, I recovered my Grandpa's old Prohibition-era bench capper from a relative who wasn't using it, and now use that. No problems there, either. I pretty much use Midwest's generic caps.
I never, ever boil caps. There is no reason to boil them. I spray them with Star San solution and cap. Game over.
I suggest you try to borrow a capper somewhere and try it on a batch. That should confirm if it is the capper or not.....but the whole principle of crown caps seems pretty simple to me. The cap is crimped down over the lip of the bottle by the cup on the capper. It's the cup diameter that determines the seal, because it's the rim of the cap being pushed around and under the lip that forms the seal. The relationship between the diameter of the cup, the dimensions of the cap, and the size and shape of the lip -which have been standardized for a long time- determine the formation of the seal. I have heard of different diameter in some European bottles, and that some suppliers make caps for them, but I've never personally run into any of that stuff.

 

[Vuarra]

I've noticed that the only bottles my wing capper holds on to is the Innis & Gunn bottles. Standard Canadian and American bottles are too small from the bottom lip to the top of the bottle to use said capper, so I bought a bench capper. I prefer the wing capper, as I find it easier to use.

For the OP, have you tried tightening the bell on your capper(s)? I have found that that helps immensely.

 

[BrewN00b]

I'm going to give an after action report. Today I bottled 2 batches, one Ed Wort's Apfelwein, and the other a Belgian Saison. When I added the carbing sugar to the mix I made sure I mixed it thoroughly to make sure I will not have uneven carbonation. When I capped I made sure to liberally apply torque, and than rotate the bottles a full 90 degrees so that there is a full circular impression on the bottles (most of them anyways). Needless to say, after cleaning and sanitizing ALL the bottles in my house, steam cleaning my carpets, going to the dentist for a cleaning, and finishing with bottling 10 gallons of hooch, I am absolutely exhausted. No gym for me tonight.

Thanks for the input guys. I think the problem was that I was not evenly applying enough pressure on my wing capper. I will find out in three weeks (at 70 degrees).

Its funny, I didn't realize how many bottles I would use doing two batches. I'm glad I made an impulse purchase at my LHBS when I bought a case of 1L swing top bottles. They saved my ass today.

 

[double_e5]

You shouldn't have to put that much pressure on your wing capper. I still use one when I bottle, always have good carbonation, and don't put enough pressure to get the indention in the middle of the cap. Rotating the bottle 90 degrees isn't going to do a thing. Once the cap is crimped, it's crimped. You could stand on the damn capper and it isn't going to get anymore crimped.

IMO, there is either something wrong with the cappper or the caps themselves.