Why bother with stainless?

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Spintab

Spintab

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I'm really not trying to open up the age old aluminum vs stainless debate, I understand the pros and cons of each, especially after reading through several long winded threads about the comparisons. I keep seeing people rooting for aluminum though so my question at this point though is why even bother with stainless? Why is it that every brewing site and shop only sells stainless? Can someone prevent me from returning shiny stainless turkey fryer I just bought to replace my aluminum setup outside of it being pretty and shiny? The stainless I bought does have a spigot that the aluminum did not, and the burner is a few hundred btu's higher than the other but I rarely crank the thing to full blast anyway. I saw the black friday add for the stainless setup and told swmbo that I wanted it and she actually said yes for once. At that point I was so hell bent on buying it for that reason alone that I didn't stop to think about whether it would be a worthwhile investment over maybe a better chiller or something.

Again, I get the scientific blah blah blah of each. I'm looking for pure opinion of why someone owns stainless over aluminum if aluminum is cheaper and a better heat conductor.
 
Keep your SS fryer. I have one each of aluminum and SS (used both for over 10 years) and haven't had an issue with either one. No bad tastes imparted into the brews from either kettle. I think SS is easier to clean (physically scrubbing), from my experience.
 
I use stainless because I can do a hot PBW solution recirculating through my pump, chiller, hoses, etc. for clean-up and everything gets nice and shiny. If I tried that with aluminum I would pit the hell out of it.
 
Uh oh, I'm getting my popcorn ready...
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Yes I realize this is going to provoke a lot of comments about how this has been brought up over and over and use the search function and yada yada. I have, I've read the sticky and to be frankly honest my question barely ever actually gets answered. It's always "yes aluminum is fine" or "aluminum won't contribute off flavors" or "boil your aluminum ahead of time to build up the oxide layer and you'll be fine". Very rarely does anyone actually fight FOR stainless.
 
I have aluminum because I am a broke ass mofo. I am not going to lie, I would love to have stainless. Aluminum will work but mine is dented and discolored. It's not even that old. But I am not really going for aesthetics so it's not a big deal. I am actually thinking about picking up a 40 quart aluminum. The 32 is not big enough for longer boils. SS is nice though.
 
A 60qt aluminum kettle is much lighter than a 60qt stainless kettle. Plus about a 100 bones cheaper. Love my aluminum.
 
I use welded fittings, and I can weld onto stainless.

There's nothing wrong with aluminum, but SS is more durable and forgiving long term to cleaners and scrubbing...not that I'd expect anyone to have issues with it.
 
I sell stainless steel cookware for a living so I am completely biased......I do not like aluminum at all but that debate has been beaten to death. I believe what I believe and have seen what I have seen so....I think Stainless looks better...it is definitely easier to clean...it is more durable... there is no need to build up any kind of a layer to prevent the stainless from contacting your wort( I never could figure out why if aluminum is completely a non issue people always recommend this ) I know everyone says they do not care about asthetics but damn a nice shiney stainless set up does look nice.
 
Oh yeah.. do any commercial breweries use aluminum? I know my friends who dairy farm use all stainless NO aluminum allowed in their tanks or lines .
 
Not to brag, but I've brewed plenty of excellent beer in an aluminum pot. 30+ batches.

With that said, I'm moving to stainless. It's simply a better brewing metal. I will miss the heat conductivity of Al. It heats quick and cools quick, but stainless is better in every other aspect other than price and weight.
 
Stainless is much easier to clean. We can use acid to clean the vessels and lines as dairys, breweries, every food handling operation, etc. If there is a question about durability; perform a test and drill a 1" hole in both stainless and aluminum and you'll clearly find your answer.
 
Thank you everyone. Exactly the motivation I need. Definitely going with SS, but I may opt for a better, more life long kettle than this turkey fryer setup came with. I'm in a fortunate position of having some budget for upgrades so I might as well get the quality I'm ultimately looking for. If I could get something with a coupling or two welded in, I'd be saving some dough that I'd have to spend on a weldless kit anyway.
 
This entire thread is full of misinformation mixed with facts.

1. The oxidation layer that builds up on aluminum is almost instant - there is nothing to wait for.

2. Although not mentioned, Stainless Steel also depends on a oxide layer to provent corrosion. A thin layer of chromium dioxode protects stainless steel from rusting.

3. Stainless steel is easily welded but you need to know how. Most often welding issues are caused by the heavy mass of the fitting against the very thin pot wall. And it does not help that stainless is a very poor conductor of heat. This causes you to blow a hole in the pot wall.

4. Commercial breweries use stainless steel for cost and durability. If large aluminum pots were affordable they would be using aluminum. Breweries used to use copper pots before copper pots became unaffordable.

And BTW, the best brew pots are pots with a tri-metal bottom. The pot is stainless steel then you have a layer of aluminum on the bottom and another layer of stainless steel after the aluminum. This way you get the easy to clean and durability of stainless plus the excellent thermal conduction of aluminum.

I've brewed in stainless and I've brewed in aluminum. Now I use a Trimontina 6 gallon pot with a tri-metal bottom and the pot works great. I can turn the heat all the way up with no fear of scorching. My buddy can't do this with his expensive Blichmann brew pot! SAM's Club has a similar Bakers & Chef's pot in their commercial coolware section that will work as well for less than a new turkey fryer!
 
thargrav said:
This entire thread is full of misinformation mixed with facts.

4. Commercial breweries use stainless steel for cost and durability. If large aluminum pots were affordable they would be using aluminum. Breweries used to use copper pots before copper pots became unaffordable.

!
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Modern commercial breweries would never use aluminum, unless they wanted to wash everything with Dawn dish soap. The CIP process requires strong acids A brewery I frequent has gone so far as to put granite slaps under the bottom drain of the Conicals because the acid is eating holes in the concrete floor after draining the acid solution.

Also, the oxide layer on aluminum can be easily removed, not so with stainless. If you don't believe me go to the soldering ss thread and you'll see that most readily available acid flux won't even remove the oxide layer on ss.
 
pickles said:
Modern commercial breweries would never use aluminum, unless they wanted to wash everything with Dawn dish soap. The CIP process requires strong acids A brewery I frequent has gone so far as to put granite slaps under the bottom drain of the Conicals because the acid is eating holes in the concrete floor after draining the acid solution.

Also, the oxide layer on aluminum can be easily removed, not so with stainless. If you don't believe me go to the soldering ss thread and you'll see that most readily available acid flux won't even remove the oxide layer on ss.
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Caustics too, CIP procedures use a strong, hot caustic first. The aluminum would never stand a chance.
 
My whole thing is simply the argument that aluminum leaches into the things you cook in it. If you gave me a beer, I'd never have a clue what it was brewed in. If I was buying something, I'd go SS. If something aluminum was gifted to me, I might use it until I replaced it with SS -- but idk that the fact that it was aluminum would be the main driver for replacement.
 
pickles said:
Modern commercial breweries would never use aluminum, unless they wanted to wash everything with Dawn dish soap. The CIP process requires strong acids A brewery I frequent has gone so far as to put granite slaps under the bottom drain of the Conicals because the acid is eating holes in the concrete floor after draining the acid solution.

Also, the oxide layer on aluminum can be easily removed, not so with stainless. If you don't believe me go to the soldering ss thread and you'll see that most readily available acid flux won't even remove the oxide layer on ss.
Click to expand...

I didn't say the cleaning process wouldn't change. They use th CIP process because stainless steel lets them.
 
In my experience, the ideal brew kettle is a kettle with a tri-layer bottom (aluminum sandwiched between layers of SS). I have a 6 gallon pot with a tri-layer bottom and we never had any scorching issues with it. We switched over to a keggle and...well...we've had some bad scorching issues with it.

But as for aluminum vs. SS, there's just no question: stainless all the way, just for the cleaning issues alone.
 
Tri-metal bottom is exactly what I mentioned in my earlier post. I even listed a reasonable cost source for anyone else reading this thread.

SAMs club - 6 gallon pot in the commercial cookware section.
 
thargrav said:
Tri-metal bottom is exactly what I mentioned in my earlier post. I even listed a reasonable cost source for anyone else reading this thread.

SAMs club - 6 gallon pot in the commercial cookware section.
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We're talking stainless vs aluminum. The OP didn't say the vessel would be heated with a flame.

I guess we disagree. It's silly to think that a brewery would opt for a more labor intensive cleaning operation in order to use an aluminum vessel.
 
My point is a combination of both is better than either. A stainless steel pot with a tri-metal bottom gives you the ease of cleaning plus the thermal conductivity of aluminum.

And as much as we idolize breweries they are just businesses. I'm sure they would jump at the chance to save thousands of BTUs a year in exchange for some labor.
 
It's for home brewing so it's heated by a flame for what it's worth. Doesn't really matter though. I'd imagine a huge reason breweries use SS is because it is malleable and more easily welded. Material vs labor becomes more of an issue when your welds are 10ft long.
 
You are getting at why stainless is more affordable than aluminum. Compare a good aluminum pot to a good stainless pot and you'll notice right away that the aluminum is much thicker - it has to be thicker to be as strong. Now imagine that pot scaling up to brewery size. Welds would be more difficult, not just because of the weld length.

And BTW I brew inside on a electric stove in the summer.
 
Spintab said:
It's for home brewing so it's heated by a flame for what it's worth. Doesn't really matter though. I'd imagine a huge reason breweries use SS is because it is malleable and more easily welded. Material vs labor becomes more of an issue when your welds are 10ft long.
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I have a home brewery too, it's not heated with a flame.
 
Picky picky. A stove is still a heat source under the kettle. Even steam jacketing is still an external heat source. Only other option is a heating element in the side of the kettle. My hlt is setup like that but in a ale pale. I'd like to do the same with the kettle eventually. Nice to know brazing/soldering ss isn't too hard with the right gas/flame/flux/solder combo.

Edit: wrong guy sorry. Are you on a stove or electric elements of some sort?
 
weirdboy said:
I use stainless because I can do a hot PBW solution recirculating through my pump, chiller, hoses, etc. for clean-up and everything gets nice and shiny. If I tried that with aluminum I would pit the hell out of it.
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I'll second this. I cleaned my alumium kettle with PBW and pitted the hell out of it. :(
 
Spintab said:
Picky picky. A stove is still a heat source under the kettle. Even steam jacketing is still an external heat source. Only other option is a heating element in the side of the kettle. My hlt is setup like that but in a ale pale. I'd like to do the same with the kettle eventually. Nice to know brazing/soldering ss isn't too hard with the right gas/flame/flux/solder combo.

Edit: wrong guy sorry. Are you on a stove or electric elements of some sort?
Click to expand...

Heating with an element immersed in the water/wort would be best in SS because of the lower thermal conductivity. The SS would 'insulate' better than Al and more of the heat you put in would stay there.

Overall I'd say that if you want to build a large 3 vessel system then SS and CIP procedures are the way to go. Smaller systems are easier to clean and so CIP wouldn't be worth it so I'd go for Al in that case.
 
I have an all electric RIMs system, with heating elements in BK, HLT, and RIMs. In my case aluminums conductivity is a minus. So for me there is no pro in the aluminum column. That's what works for me. You asked why stainless so I'm trying to approach it from the material standpoint alone.
 
thargrav said:
SAMs club - 6 gallon pot in the commercial cookware section.
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Link? I'd like to see the size and cost of this pot.

I started brewing a few years ago with a SS pot, and recently switched to a larger AL one they came with my burner. I hate it. It never looks clean and the material just isn't as durable. If I could replace it with the same size SS pot I would in a heart beat.

I've brewed about 10 batches with both and stainless is just way easier to work with.
 
pickles said:
I have an all electric RIMs system, with heating elements in BK, HLT, and RIMs. In my case aluminums conductivity is a minus. So for me there is no pro in the aluminum column. That's what works for me. You asked why stainless so I'm trying to approach it from the material standpoint alone.
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I'm actually curious what it is that caused people to choose stainless. Be it opinion or necessity. The advantage of stainless with submersed heating is key. I can't stand spending 20 bucks every few batches to refill the propane tank and worrying if I have enough for the length of the boil. Like I said, I plan on eventually sticking an element in the kettle and losing the propane all together. Good to know stainless is the way to go in that circumstance.
 
thargrav said:
I'm sure they would jump at the chance to save thousands of BTUs a year in exchange for some labor.
Click to expand...

I hope you are being sarcastic about that :) only because they don't care about that cost...they pass that on to the price of their product and it's picked up by the consumer....whereas the homebrewer has to watch their costs both in ingredients, fuel costs, equipment costs...and time - the only person they pass it off to is themselves.
 
Kuhndog said:
I hope you are being sarcastic about that :) only because they don't care about that cost...they pass that on to the price of their product and it's picked up by the consumer....whereas the homebrewer has to watch their costs both in ingredients, fuel costs, equipment costs...and time - the only person they pass it off to is themselves.
Click to expand...

You obviously have no idea what your talking about. Every last cent is calculated, backward and forward.
 

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