Why bleach and sanitize bottles?

[ManyBrews]

I saw in the bottle cleansing thread yesterday that many people soak their bottles in bleach, rinse, dishwasher, and then dip them in sanitizer solution before bottling. What a process. Isn't bleach a sanitizer? So couldn't you just soak bottles in bleach water, rinse and fill??? What's the real chance of infection of a bottle that soaked in bleach for a day?

 

[babalu87]

The infection isnt the problem, its getting all the bleach off the bottles.

 

[corvax13]

Some people do have quite an extensive process (myself included) - do whatever makes sense to you. You can never be too clean when it comes to brewing.

 

[yodalegomaster]

There is a process that brewers use, to clean first then sanitize. Bleach is the best cleaner, then you need to sanitize to get bleach off and still sanitize, if you get any clorophenol flavors it usally cloromines in your water not from the bleach used.

 

[iron_city_ap]

I don't use bleach on my bottles just because I'm a little paranoid about not getting all of it off. I do rinse them out real good about 4 times and look to see that I got any settled particles out. If need be, I'll break out the bottle brush and give them a good scrub. After that, I run them through the dishwasher (on sanitize) and then soak them in sanitizer. So far so good.

 

[JNye]

so far my process is just to soak them in oxyclean overnite and give them a hot rinse just before bottling. then i use a spay bottle and shoot about a 1/4 inch worth in each bottle and swirl it around good. this takes a little bit of time but its easier then most routines i read about(it alows me to keep the bottles in the basemnt for the whole process, dishwasher is upstairs). Once i get a bottle tree and spray attachment it'll be a breeze.

 

[400d]

so far my process is just to soak them in oxyclean overnite and give them a hot rinse just before bottling. then i use a spay bottle and shoot about a 1/4 inch worth in each bottle and swirl it around good. this takes a little bit of time but its easier then most routines i read about(it alows me to keep the bottles in the basemnt for the whole process, dishwasher is upstairs). Once i get a bottle tree and spray attachment it'll be a breeze.

hot rinse is not enough for oxyclean. even though your bottles might look completely rinsed, you still have a lot of oxyclean left on the bottle walls. you should rinse it with vinegar solution. you will be surprised with the amount of white bubbly resultant after a vinegar rinse

 

[passedpawn]

Only the dishwasher for me (I always rinse the bottles after I empty them, though).

 

[400d]

Only the dishwasher for me (I always rinse the bottles after I empty them, though).

I don't understand how do you expect water to come inside the bottle, especially in the upper level of the dishwasher where the bottles are so angled....

what program do you use? what temp?

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I don't understand how do you expect water to come inside the bottle, especially in the upper level of the dishwasher where the bottles are so angled....

what program do you use? what temp?

You don't expect the water to get up there. It is the temp of the drying cycle that does the sanitizing. His bottles are rinsed immediately after he empties them, so all that is necessary at bottling time is to sanitize.

 

[400d]

You don't expect the water to get up there. It is the temp of the drying cycle that does the sanitizing. His bottles are rinsed immediately after he empties them, so all that is necessary at bottling time is to sanitize.

what temperature is enough for sanitizing and for how long? is lower temperature with longer exposure time combination ok?

 

[BobV]

I've been using the dishwasher method for about a half dozen batches now with good results. I also rinse well immediately after pouring out all the beer. I use a full cycle with a good detergent. I only put my bottles on the bottom rack, and the water does shoot into the bottles. I dry on the High heat setting.

 

[mrk305]

I don't use detergent in the dishwasher for my bottles.

 

[passedpawn]

what temperature is enough for sanitizing and for how long? is lower temperature with longer exposure time combination ok?

Click pic for big one.

 

[BobV]

After reading some of the other comments on this thread I think I'll skip the detergent next time. Since the bottles are already clean it really isn't necessary after all. Thanks for the info!

 

[passedpawn]

what program do you use? what temp?

I've used an infrared temp gun and measured the bottles coming out of my dishwasher, after the drying cycle at > 160F. Probably higher but this was some time after the thing was finished and off. At that temp, everything is dead. My DW has a hi-temp cycle, yours may vary.

I never starsan my bottles. I did, once, put an ounce of star san in the DW. Don't do this. I ended up with an odd white dust on everything.

 

[phishfood]

hot rinse is not enough for oxyclean. even though your bottles might look completely rinsed, you still have a lot of oxyclean left on the bottle walls. you should rinse it with vinegar solution. you will be surprised with the amount of white bubbly resultant after a vinegar rinse

Could you please expand upon this? A lot of people on here use OxyClean to clean their bottles, and I have never heard of anyone using a vinegar solution to rinse with. I have been doing a double rinse, but I haven't used this method for long enough to know if it is causing me problems or not.

 

[400d]

Could you please expand upon this? A lot of people on here use OxyClean to clean their bottles, and I have never heard of anyone using a vinegar solution to rinse with. I have been doing a double rinse, but I haven't used this method for long enough to know if it is causing me problems or not.

you try to soak a botlle in oxyclean overnight.

then rinse it in water as many times as you want, until you think you rinsed all of it from the bottle....

after this add a tea spoon of vinegar in the bottle and top with water to half. shake well....

you will see how vinegar reacts with oxyclean leftovers. this is the only way to completely remove oxyclean...

 

[viking73]

Like Passedpawn I just use the dishwasher. I do inspect every bottle though and brush those that need it in soapy water.

 

[BigB]

Interesting... Maybe I am super lazy or super lucky. But all I do is thoroughly rinse the bottle after use then hit em with a starsan solution from a vinatore a few minutes before I refill them. No dishwasher, no bleach, no oxy clean, no cooking the bottles, no problems yet.

 

[Richabt]

+1 on Passedpawns method. I've never had a problem.

 

[jim4065]

I'm a bit leery of trusting those times as shown on that graph. It looks like it is based on a heated liquid - not dry heat. You may need to add a "fudge factor" for dishwasher (or oven) sanitizing. That being said - I just rinse after pouring out the beer, rinse again (Blast) and use Star-San on the bottle tree before re-filling. Probably not 100%, but no problems yet......

 

[JNye]

hot rinse is not enough for oxyclean. even though your bottles might look completely rinsed, you still have a lot of oxyclean left on the bottle walls. you should rinse it with vinegar solution. you will be surprised with the amount of white bubbly resultant after a vinegar rinse

that sucks. what would be the problem with residual oxyclean? I have never tasted any off flavors yet. Does it effect head retention?

 

[Yooper]

Interesting... Maybe I am super lazy or super lucky. But all I do is thoroughly rinse the bottle after use then hit em with a starsan solution from a vinatore a few minutes before I refill them. No dishwasher, no bleach, no oxy clean, no cooking the bottles, no problems yet.

That's what I do, too. No dishsoap, bleach, etc. Just rinse them well after use, so they are squeaky clean, then just sanitize on bottling day with the vinator and star san. It takes about 10 minutes total to do 50 bottles.

If I get yucky bottles from friends, I find that they have to have a bleach/water or oxyclean soak. I'm a huge fan of the generic oxyclean, but I have very hard water. If I soak for more than an hour or so, I get a white film that will just not come off. I have enough bottles after all these years, that I just recycle the ones that need cleaning.

 

[Marsdude]

There is a process that brewers use, to clean first then sanitize. Bleach is the best cleaner, then you need to sanitize to get bleach off and still sanitize, if you get any clorophenol flavors it usally cloromines in your water not from the bleach used.

I was a little confused about what you were saying???

I run a commercial kitchen and we have to follow all the Health Dept. regs. Bleach is not considered a cleaner, like a detergent, but is considered a sanitizer or disinfectant depending on the strength of the solution. To use bleach as a sanitizer for food surfaces the solution is 1 tsp bleach to a gallon of water. To use it at a higher concentration is not recommended.

IMHO it is better to use StarSan to sanitize beer bottles, although I do keep reading how the dishwasher method seems to work well.

 

[snipper_cr]

Whew, I am glad others have finally posted less intense methods. I only thoroughly rinse my bottles 2 times after using them and dry them off. Then on brew day, fill them with a bit of sanstar solution, shake well to get extra foamy, drain and let sit for a bit. Fill with beer, drink, enjoy, and repeat.

I am a bit of a nazi when it comes to rinsing after use though. I have threatened roommates with tap privileges if they do not rinse their bottles right away.

 

[ChrisS68]

Seems to me that most people who have trouble with "OxiClean" are actually using a generic version rather than the brand name, or perhaps they use too much. I have extremely hard water and haven't had a problem with OxiClean leaving a residue (I believe the residue is actually calcium that precipitates out of solution). Now, if I boil tap water, I get serious mineral residue and a layer of "sand" at the bottom of the pot.

 

[JNye]

Seems to me that most people who have trouble with "OxiClean" are actually using a generic version rather than the brand name, or perhaps they use too much. I have extremely hard water and haven't had a problem with OxiClean leaving a residue (I believe the residue is actually calcium that precipitates out of solution). Now, if I boil tap water, I get serious mineral residue and a layer of "sand" at the bottom of the pot.

this makes much more sense. of course with vinegar being an acid it will remove the calcium that precipitated.

 

[EricT]

Interesting... Maybe I am super lazy or super lucky. But all I do is thoroughly rinse the bottle after use then hit em with a starsan solution from a vinatore a few minutes before I refill them. No dishwasher, no bleach, no oxy clean, no cooking the bottles, no problems yet.

Same here, before this I just soaked in hot water and 1-2 oz of bleach per 5 gallons of water as per Charlie Papazian. No issues then or now.

 

[Rick500]

I just make sure I rinse the bottles immediately after they're opened and emptied, then rinse again with warm water and then StarSan solution before I fill them again. Has worked every time.

 

[Chuck_Swillery]

I'm a dishwasher sanatizer also. However, I also wash them by hand FIRST then let the dishwasher's heat do the sanatizing for me. I've never had a problem w/this method.

 

[glenn514]

Being still a relative n00b, I may not be giving bottle sanitation enough consideration. I, too, rinse emptied bottles thoroughly and allow them to dry. When I'm ready to bottle, I run my clean empties through the dishwasher...NO SOAP--just water...on the "hi temp" wash and the drying cycle. The water rinses them out again...yes, some does manage to get in there...and the drying temp takes care of sanitation. I haven't had a problem yet.

glenn514

 

[McGarnigle]

Beer is less vulnerable than wort, so you can get away with stuff when bottling. Still, I personally am not content to merely rinse after use; I also use One Step to clean, then Star San (or occasionally the oven).

 

[northernlad]

Interesting... Maybe I am super lazy or super lucky. But all I do is thoroughly rinse the bottle after use then hit em with a starsan solution from a vinatore a few minutes before I refill them. No dishwasher, no bleach, no oxy clean, no cooking the bottles, no problems yet.

^This. I used to go through all the work and misuse of resources with my dishwasher, etc.
Now:
Rinse every bottle every time. Store upside down in milk crates. One shot of starsan courtesy of vinator, rack upside down on a commercial dishmachine rack. Bottle.
I know dishmachines work well for those who use them but its just such a waste of water, energy, and time. Plus you are getting what is left over from your lasty round of dishes thrown all over your bottles.
A vinator is under $20 and you'll pay for that by not using your dishmachine.

Every detergent leaves residue behind. ESPECIALLY if you are using heat dry. What is on there becomes baked on there. It is best to not use them if possible.
As far as bleach being a cleaner not a santizer, that is completely wrong, unless you are speaking of its specific use in homebrewing.

 

[400d]

Click pic for big one.

if this is true, it means that my dish washer which has a drying stage at 65°C (149 F) for 25 minutes will be just enough to sanitize all the bottles....

but the problem that occurs here is that bottling lasts for 1 - 2 hours, and if I just pick bottles up from the dish washer, it's enough time for them to get exposed again to airborne enemies...

when I sanitize with bleach solution, I rinse one bottle at a time, then fill with beer and cap... this shortens the exposure time to minimum....

maybe I'm just being obsessive with sanitizing...

 

[BigB]

maybe I'm just being obsessive with sanitizing...

I would say just a little. But theres nothing wrong with that!

 

[gtpro]

Personally I just rinse all my bottles with hot water right after drinking them and then do a detergent free dishwasher cycle with heated dry. I only use the bottom rack with the bottle mouths pointing down to up my chances of getting the water inside the bottles. 7 batches and I havent had a problem yet (knock on wood).