dwhite60
Well-Known Member
Or how long did you brew extract before going all grain.
Just curious.
All the Best,
D. White
Just curious.
All the Best,
D. White
Who here started out all grain?
- Thread starter dwhite60
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
All grain after 2 batches of extract in 1989
I did 4 extracts and 4 mini mash recipes before all grain. BIAB was not a big thing when I started so I was acquiring equipment and learning during this period.
Many new brewers buy a kit and follow the directions. That is not good enough for all grain, since instructions are 1) poorly written 2) can't cover everything you should know for all grain (would take a book)
If you read that book and do some research there is no reason not to start with all grain.
Not enough people take that route.
Many new brewers buy a kit and follow the directions. That is not good enough for all grain, since instructions are 1) poorly written 2) can't cover everything you should know for all grain (would take a book)
If you read that book and do some research there is no reason not to start with all grain.
Not enough people take that route.
dwhite60
Well-Known Member
I did extract for about a year, 1990, before going all grain.
If I had seen the logic in doing smaller, 2.5 to 3 gallon batches I'd have gone all grain sooner.
All the Best,
D. White
If I had seen the logic in doing smaller, 2.5 to 3 gallon batches I'd have gone all grain sooner.
All the Best,
D. White
I started with all grain almost 8 years ago. My initial setup was for three gal batches & kegging. I used all gravity feed. Even using a CFC.
I’ve since expanded my system to 6 gal which I ferment & keg in 3 gal.
I’ve since expanded my system to 6 gal which I ferment & keg in 3 gal.
I started extract brewing about 8 years ago. Over the next couple of years I brewed 12-15 batches (I didn’t keep really good records when I started). The beer wasn’t bad, but I noticed that, regardless of the style, every batch tasted about the same. Looking back, this was probably due to a) using kits that probably didn’t have the freshest ingredients and, b) following the directions that came with the kits.
In 2013 I started all grain. I immediately realized that I should have done that from the start.
In 2013 I started all grain. I immediately realized that I should have done that from the start.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
I started all grain, with a kit, using only the kit instructions.
How did it turn out?
What problems did you have?
What did the instructions tell you to do that you would never do today?
What did the instructions leave out that you would definitely do today?
MikeOhio
Well-Known Member
My first Experience with craft beer was a BOP who did extract brewing only....its was off tasting and oxidized very quickly. I thought to myself and a few friends that this was'nt how homebrewed beer should taste. Studied brewing for a year and purchased quality peices to start homebrewing instead of the cheap kits out there. Purchased a mill and my grains in bulk and let rip! Never done an extract brew myself and never will. Never a complaint since!!!
It was not due to making an extract recipe.... My extract brews are indistinguishable from all grain and commercial beers. There are tons of award winning extract beers.
I brewed 3 mini mash and one LME that had hops added, before moving to BIAB. Still once in a while I’ll do mini mash (just brewed a hefe that is pretty tasty) when in a time crunch. Funny that now I’m more experienced and more knowledgeable than when I began, the extract brew turns out much better. That said, as I’m sure you’ve noticed, extract is a little more expensive.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
It turned out as beer, which I drank.
The issues:
- Stale kit ingredients don't produce good beer, particularly repackaged hops that have been sitting at room temperature. There was pretty much no hop character.
- Lautering was a real pain with the suggested method, especially since I didn't have two properly sized vessels. I wish they had started me with BIAB.
- I misinterpreted the instructions thinking I needed to strain out all the hop material to keep it from going into the fermenter. Turns out that's impossible because the strainer just clogs.
- Bottling was difficult without a bottling wand. The hose clamp was useless for stopping flow.
There's nothing outright wrong with the instructions they provide.
Take a look if you're interested:
https://brooklynbrewshop.com/pages/instructions-everyday-ipa-1
I do a lot of things differently since starting, obviously. Too much to list.
It turned out as beer, which I drank.
The issues:
- Stale kit ingredients don't produce good beer, particularly repackaged hops that have been sitting at room temperature. There was pretty much no hop character.
- Lautering was a real pain with the suggested method, especially since I didn't have two properly sized vessels. I wish they had started me with BIAB.
- I misinterpreted the instructions thinking I needed to strain out all the hop material to keep it from going into the fermenter. Turns out that's impossible because the strainer just clogs.
- Bottling was difficult without a bottling wand. The hose clamp was useless for stopping flow.
There's nothing outright wrong with the instructions they provide.
Take a look if you're interested:
https://brooklynbrewshop.com/pages/instructions-everyday-ipa-1
I do a lot of things differently since starting, obviously. Too much to list.
My point. Starting all grain without doing any prior research will probably give you a disappointing first beer. There is a thread where the guy boiled the grain without crushing etc.....
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
I think every first brew will be disappointing, depending on your standards. Who cares? It's fun and a learning experience.
For most people capable of following basic instructions I would suggest starting with all grain. It's not rocket science. Lives don't hang in the balance.
Nothing is idiot-proof.
I agree, there is nothing wrong with starting all grain. I would not advise against it.
I am talking of the people who say I want to make beer. Here is a kit to buy. And they do no more to find out about brewing before doing the kit.
I don't know about all kits, but I would say that most will not give you the information you really need in the instructions. Make beer = yes. Decent beer probably not.
You do need to know a bit more than your average extract kit or you will most likely make a sub par batch at best. Many new brewers will not take the time to learn anything ahead of time.
I know, I did some research, but not enough that I think I would have made a decent beer if I did all grain first.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
This is a purely philosophical debate because those people will never come to this page or hear the great points being made on both sides of the argument.
I see kits as just a gateway to brewing, not as a way to make great beer. For that purpose I think both extract or all-grain are fine, but all-grain provides a better learning experience in my opinion.
I've only brewed all-grain and never have I brewed a kit. I have brewed a few recipes from teh interwebs but for the most part create my own. Oh, and I've brewed and drank lots of mediocre beer.
In retrospect trying to learn all of that all at once, I wasn't really setting myself up for success. I even learned about diastaticus infection the hard way when I had a string of beers that finished out unexpectedly low and produced lots of gushers. Honestly, if I had it to do over again I'd have started with extract and stuck with kits for at least the first year to get my technique down, then start tweaking the recipes I'd had success with. Then start to learn water adjustments, step-mashing, etc.
In retrospect trying to learn all of that all at once, I wasn't really setting myself up for success. I even learned about diastaticus infection the hard way when I had a string of beers that finished out unexpectedly low and produced lots of gushers. Honestly, if I had it to do over again I'd have started with extract and stuck with kits for at least the first year to get my technique down, then start tweaking the recipes I'd had success with. Then start to learn water adjustments, step-mashing, etc.
6Tap
To drink beer is human..
My first two batches were extract then switched to all grain. [emoji482]
It took me 4 years to start brewing all grain.
I started brewing in January 2009.
My first brew (extract with steeping grains) was a pre-assembled kit, a pretty decent one: Yellow Dog Pale Ale. It tasted like beer.
That's the one and only kit I've ever brewed.
Over the next 4 years I bought loose ingredients at my LHBS for extract brew recipes with steeping grains. Mostly brewing Palmer's recipes in How to Brew with some modifications as I learned more. Did some mini mashes in a 2 gallon pot, although I didn't quite know they were called mini mashes. I probably brewed 10-15 extract/steeped based beers then.
By January 2013 I found and joined HBT, started gathering additional equipment for all grain, like building a cooler mash tun, joined the DC area group grain buy, and brewed a couple all grain beers. I also started kegging by then.
Spring of that year came around, I finally sold my former house in Northeast PA, lifting a huge burden.
Went to the AHA conference in Philadelphia in June, and that's where the brew bug bit me. And good! I had never imagined all the different beers one could brew at home.
I started brewing in January 2009.
My first brew (extract with steeping grains) was a pre-assembled kit, a pretty decent one: Yellow Dog Pale Ale. It tasted like beer.
That's the one and only kit I've ever brewed.
Over the next 4 years I bought loose ingredients at my LHBS for extract brew recipes with steeping grains. Mostly brewing Palmer's recipes in How to Brew with some modifications as I learned more. Did some mini mashes in a 2 gallon pot, although I didn't quite know they were called mini mashes. I probably brewed 10-15 extract/steeped based beers then.
By January 2013 I found and joined HBT, started gathering additional equipment for all grain, like building a cooler mash tun, joined the DC area group grain buy, and brewed a couple all grain beers. I also started kegging by then.
Spring of that year came around, I finally sold my former house in Northeast PA, lifting a huge burden.
Went to the AHA conference in Philadelphia in June, and that's where the brew bug bit me. And good! I had never imagined all the different beers one could brew at home.
Last edited:
Jumped right in with all grain (BIAB) due to lack of options where I am currently... and after reading this article: https://homebrewanswers.com/minimum-equipment-all-grain-brew/
Initial issues that I mostly addressed (though only on my 6th brew so still working many things out):
- Really low OG arising from grains not being milled well (switched to different supplier when they wouldn't improve this after asking).
- Initial sparging wasn't great, another easy fix mostly.
But even with the first couple of "not so great" beers, I did make drinkable beer! And my last couple of beers have been really good.
Initial issues that I mostly addressed (though only on my 6th brew so still working many things out):
- Really low OG arising from grains not being milled well (switched to different supplier when they wouldn't improve this after asking).
- Initial sparging wasn't great, another easy fix mostly.
But even with the first couple of "not so great" beers, I did make drinkable beer! And my last couple of beers have been really good.
This is a purely philosophical debate because those people will never come to this page or hear the great points being made on both sides of the argument.
I see kits as just a gateway to brewing, not as a way to make great beer. For that purpose I think both extract or all-grain are fine, but all-grain provides a better learning experience in my opinion.
Noted.
But I am talking of that first brew. IMO, if someone just jumps in with both feet, doing little to no research before starting. He would be far more likely to make something awful starting with all grain as opposed to extract.
Someone who does some research in advance should be able to jump right into all grain without serious issue.
And I don't know how you navigate the site but I start with Alerts then go to new posts so I see most and if something like this catches my eye I would be here regardless of experience.
I did one extract batch, that strangely wouldn't ferment...but i was hooked on homemade drugs in 1996, just knowing i could...so went all-grain for number 2, bottled that batch...hated the work, so went to kegging right after that....
moved to 10 gallon batches in ~2002, because i had a girlfriend for a few months, thought i'd be brewing for two..... lol, still brew 10 gallon batches, but not for two, i just didn't realize how much i like drinking beer!
moved to 10 gallon batches in ~2002, because i had a girlfriend for a few months, thought i'd be brewing for two..... lol, still brew 10 gallon batches, but not for two, i just didn't realize how much i like drinking beer!
lump42
The Lajestic Vantrashell of Lob
I started with 1-gal all grain batches from Brooklyn Brewshop. I followed the directions and the beer was okay. Three batches in and I built out a 5-gal brewhouse. My first first extract batch wasn't until a year and half later after I say Basic Brewing's 15-min pale ale video.
You always crack me up, man!I did one extract batch, that strangely wouldn't ferment...but i was hooked on homemade drugs in 1996, just knowing i could...so went all-grain for number 2, bottled that batch...hated the work, so went to kegging right after that....
moved to 10 gallon batches in ~2002, because i had a girlfriend for a few months, thought i'd be brewing for two..... lol, still brew 10 gallon batches, but not for two, i just didn't realize how much i like drinking beer!
Blazinlow86
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2016
- Messages
- 1,687
- Reaction score
- 743
My first batch was a bottled extract batch that turned out terrible. Went to all grain and kegs on the second batch and never went back although it did take a few all grain batches before it wasn't terrible. Cheers
CharlieW
Active Member
I made 2-3 extract brews in 1998 and took the plunge into all grain. At the time it seemed like extract was a pain and the kitchen and range tied up. I was very happy with the simplicity of brewing all grain on the deck or in the garage.
davidabcd
Detroit, Mi.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2018
- Messages
- 3,327
- Reaction score
- 4,427
I won't say, "I'll never switch," but as rewarding as all-grain is by consensus, there are so many more factors to consider than extract. Extract is so easy and does extremely well on the reward versus effort scale. Time-wise, dedication-wise, I'll continue to hold off; however; I would like to sit around, drink beer and watch an experienced all-grain brewer have at it. I would find it fascinating plus that would be 3-4 hours (or whatever) of quality BS'ing time.
Note: I don't drink when I brew but I'm okay if everyone else does.
Note: I don't drink when I brew but I'm okay if everyone else does.
dwhite60
Well-Known Member
My first batch I poured the LME into the hot water with the burner still on. Started stirring but suddenly little smoke bubbles started rising from the bottom. Did not make good beer.
LHBS said,"Sorry, should have told you about that".
I drank every bottle as that batch represented a chunk of my limited funds! I was about broke so making beer was going to be a money saver. Ended up saving me a good piece of change but mostly because the beer I liked was not BMC.
All the Best,
D. White
LHBS said,"Sorry, should have told you about that".
I drank every bottle as that batch represented a chunk of my limited funds! I was about broke so making beer was going to be a money saver. Ended up saving me a good piece of change but mostly because the beer I liked was not BMC.
All the Best,
D. White
davidabcd
Detroit, Mi.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2018
- Messages
- 3,327
- Reaction score
- 4,427
I know one should be careful with LME regarding having the burner on. I just use a high-heat, long-handled rubber spatula and stir constantly and never turn it down. I've never had a burn spot or whatever else bad thing that could happen. I wonder if it's a function of using a thin-bottomed pot? Directions nowadays say, "turn off heat," when adding LME which is sensible.
This isn't directed at you; your comment just reminded me of something I wanted to relate.
Rackrunner
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
- Messages
- 72
- Reaction score
- 33
I started with all-grain here. I had been thinking about brewing my own for several years off and on, but after seeing some videos of the all-in-one programmable all-grain systems (Pico, Grainfather, etc), I finally decided to dive in with both feet. I went with the GF, a couple of corny kegs and keg fridge, and a chest freezer+inkbird temp controller and haven't regretted it.
I did do a fair bit of research before my first brew, but there is SO much easily accessible brewing process information out there now for nearly every setup I wouldn't consider that a requirement. Starting simple with a straightforward, tried-and-true recipe and following basic instructions is going to get you some good beer!
Anyone not capable of that probably shouldn't have access to anything sharp enough to open the boxes
I did do a fair bit of research before my first brew, but there is SO much easily accessible brewing process information out there now for nearly every setup I wouldn't consider that a requirement. Starting simple with a straightforward, tried-and-true recipe and following basic instructions is going to get you some good beer!
Anyone not capable of that probably shouldn't have access to anything sharp enough to open the boxes
you're the only one, most people just tell me i'm stupid! lol
(but i love it here, when i go out in real world, most people are to scared to even make wine)edit: people in general in my opinion take drugs to seriously....RELAX HAVE FUN! if you get beat to death, so what. you lived life to fullest!
Last edited:
davidabcd
Detroit, Mi.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2018
- Messages
- 3,327
- Reaction score
- 4,427
You're a real-type person. We/I don't have to agree with you way of life. Most of us apply filters when we speak. It's refreshing to read unadulterated material.
speaking of which, i was worried someone would take that as a plea for help...lol, but thanks the same!
(and i also like the fact that i'm synthetic, "real-type person", like data from star trek...)edit: on back on topic, getting into all-grain saves a lot of money on brewing! you can use adjuncts and other things, with the enzymes in base malt....
Last edited:
davidabcd
Detroit, Mi.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2018
- Messages
- 3,327
- Reaction score
- 4,427
We all get judged, right? You're the only person that can accurately judge you.
Synthetic/Simpathetic? Sure.
Kudos to the SNG reference--you won't a more average fan. Data is a top five character for sure.
does apple juice from concentrate count as extract brewing? been doing that the last few months....
Velnerj
Simul justus et potator
This is how I started and continue to this day. My first brew was still one of the best. I guess that's what hooked me in.
I did a workshop one week and the next went to a brewery that also sells stuff and bought what i needed (all grain), the brewer designed a beer for me in beersmith and give me the printed recipe. 2 years ago.
Fabulous beer!
Fabulous beer!
Due to volume consumed, I went all grain 10gallons and kegged right from the start. My first batches were not great, but it was home made beer. I drank all of them. I am still cranking out 1 batch per month and brewing today.
Eric
Eric
