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White stout/Raspberry question

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Sieve182

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Hi fellow brewers,

We have a white stout beer down here on New Zealand that I'm looking to replicate. I've seen different recipes for white stouts but none that combine all three ingredients, chocolate, vanilla and raspberry. Now I can guess and google my way through the chocolate and vanilla additions, but aside from adding only raspberry extract, what would be your suggestions to use real raspberries and maintain the pilsner/pale ale SRM? I haven't brewed with fruit and only added blueberries in the secondary(which turned the ale blue/purple). Any help on this would be much appreciated.
 

microbusbrewery

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I do a blonde milk stout with coffee, cacao nibs, and vanilla bean. The cacao nibs and vanilla are added following Drew Beechum's process outlined here, https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/cacao-nib-extract-drew-way. That's one way to do it and it doesn't add much color. As for the raspberries, if you use real fruit I think you're only option is to use golden/yellow raspberries. If you use red, it will turn your beer pink.
 

kristiismean

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yep, pink. which might be fine. but if you are looking for extract, the lorann Raspberry is excellent and did not effect the head at all. I used 1 dram for 5 gallons.
 
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Sieve182

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Thanks guys, to better explain my thoughts(I've been googling this to death). Cacao nibs and vanilla beans added in secondary is my plan at the moment(not sure how much yet) and potentially 2.5-4.5lbs of frozen raspberries in the whirlpool(while maintaining temps of around 160 for 15-20 mins) then cool and transfer to primary. I haven't found any info on this affecting the colour(as the beer I'm looking to clone is essentially a 5% yellow/golden ale). If adding the raspberries at whirlpool changes the colour, like I'm expecting it will, then next time it may just be rasp extract... thoughts?
 

microbusbrewery

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I also wouldn't add raspberries pre-fermentation. The reason is a lot of that fruit character is going to get scrubbed out by the fermentation process. Better to add it after a couple weeks.
 
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Sieve182

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Hey guys, thanks again for the information. Looked into golden raspberries, they go by the name "ivory" down here in New Zealand but unfortunately I don't think there readily available, only the plants are to grow them. Microbus, in the original beer, there is only just a slight hint of raspberry taste and maybe even less aroma. And in secondary there is vanilla beans and cacao nibs in there for 7 days. I thought it would be a bit hectic throwing the berries in there a short well(hence the whirlpool). Do you still think that pre fermentation would be too much for a mild hint of the berries on the nose And mouth?
 

microbusbrewery

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What will happen is you'll lose fruit character if you add it pre-fermentation because the fermentation process will blow off a lot of that character. So if you're after a more subtle character, it'll be more subtle than adding the same amount of fruit after primary. You're original thought to use raspberry extract will probably be easier though. Extract shouldn't change the color at all and you can add it in small doses until you get it where you want it.
 

Simonh82

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I made a plum porter recently and added plums late in the boil. By the end of fermentation I couldn't detect any plum character at all. If you want any flavour from the raspberries then I would add them in secondary.
 

MT2sum

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Hi fellow brewers,

We have a white stout beer down here on New Zealand that I'm looking to replicate. I've seen different recipes for white stouts but none that combine all three ingredients, chocolate, vanilla and raspberry. Now I can guess and google my way through the chocolate and vanilla additions, but aside from adding only raspberry extract, what would be your suggestions to use real raspberries and maintain the pilsner/pale ale SRM? I haven't brewed with fruit and only added blueberries in the secondary(which turned the ale blue/purple). Any help on this would be much appreciated.
Got recipes? - I've only found one!
 

MT2sum

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I do a blonde milk stout with coffee, cacao nibs, and vanilla bean. The cacao nibs and vanilla are added following Drew Beechum's process outlined here, https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/cacao-nib-extract-drew-way. That's one way to do it and it doesn't add much color. As for the raspberries, if you use real fruit I think you're only option is to use golden/yellow raspberries. If you use red, it will turn your beer pink.
Got a recipe for that blonde milk stout?
 

microbusbrewery

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Got a recipe for that blonde milk stout?
Sure thing. It was inspired by Naughty Sauce from Nobel Ale Works. I've brewed it at least four times, each time making some slight modifications such as slight changes to the grain bill or different coffee blends. It definitely is on the sweet side, so if you want something less sweet, cut back on the lactose a bit. Here's the link to the first attempt and the follow ups can be found under Beer Recipes > Golden Java Chocolate Milk Stout.

http://www.microbusbrewery.org/2015/02/golden-java-chocolate-milk-stout.html?m=1
 

MT2sum

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Sure thing. It was inspired by Naughty Sauce from Nobel Ale Works. I've brewed it at least four times, each time making some slight modifications such as slight changes to the grain bill or different coffee blends. It definitely is on the sweet side, so if you want something less sweet, cut back on the lactose a bit. Here's the link to the first attempt and the follow ups can be found under Beer Recipes > Golden Java Chocolate Milk Stout.

http://www.microbusbrewery.org/2015/02/golden-java-chocolate-milk-stout.html?m=1
Thanks, I'll check it out. It will be a while before I can brew it, just want to put it into Beersmith so that I don't forget it. I'm in the middle of a re-model, as well as electrifying my brewpots, so I have to do it a little at a time. I may try to reduce it to a 1-2 gallon brew so I have some idea of what I'll be brewing if I like it. I'm really into dark beers, and the idea of a white stout had me wondering ...... at the same time, a blonde might be nice as well, becuz I do like pales once in a while, but if it's a lager, it's out of my range of possibilities (well, maybe if the weather keeps constant for a few more weeks, I could possibly do a lager out in my old saloon building) :mug:.

I just took a look and it sounds like a great ale - thanks for the links for the extracts and coffee tips. Thanksfully it wasn't a lager - I've seen some recipes on other sites that were a blonde lager, so you had me worried ;>).
Just to let you know, the link must be broke for "Golden Java Chocolate Milk Stout - Round 4" as I got this message - "Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist."
Also, having lived in SLC, Rexburg, and Idaho Falls in the past, I understand the term "Jack Mormon" and I met a lot of those folks over the years. I also found that if you weren't one of the 'people' (Jack or not) ..... it was hard to find and keep a job in some of the smaller towns of Utah and southern Idaho 30-40 years ago! That may have changed by now, but now I'm too old to move down there and find out - lol.
 

microbusbrewery

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Just to let you know, the link must be broke for "Golden Java Chocolate Milk Stout - Round 4" as I got this message - "Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist."
Also, having lived in SLC, Rexburg, and Idaho Falls in the past, I understand the term "Jack Mormon" and I met a lot of those folks over the years. I also found that if you weren't one of the 'people' (Jack or not) ..... it was hard to find and keep a job in some of the smaller towns of Utah and southern Idaho 30-40 years ago! That may have changed by now, but now I'm too old to move down there and find out - lol.
Thanks for the heads up. Yeah, it's probably still that way in the smaller towns, at least to some extent. I'm originally from SoCal and when we moved here a lot of people warned me about that kind of stuff. LDS is definitely still the dominate religion and anyone that thinks cronyism is dead is kidding themselves, but I think it is getting better in SLC. At least there seems to be plenty of national companies that offer employment here.
 

MT2sum

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Thanks for the heads up.
Sure, I'll look in on your site every so often in case you have time to repair the link ;>)

Since I'm a porter and stout kinda guy, I'll try to adapt your Lost Abbey to my use (No barrels, and dry yeast). I may be scarfing some of your other recipes as well. My favorite porter is one from Belt, Montana - Pig's Ass Porter, and so far, my least favorite is Black Butte from Deschutes (Bend, OR) - although they do make a good stout, Obsidian Stout.


At least there seems to be plenty of national companies that offer employment here.
That's good to hear - SLC was much better than Southern ID. for jobs back in the day, although it was still difficult in SLC for some.
 

Sadu

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Slightly OT, but I had one of the Good George American pale ales from the supermarket the other day. Came in a 1 litre bottle and I wanted the bottle more than anything. I don't normally bother with APAs and IPAs in bottles because often they aren't fresh, but this thing was the business. I don't know what or how much hops they use but it had way more hop character than any of my pale ales (my house recipe uses 8oz/200g of hops).

Will definitely be checking out more of their range.
 
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