Whiskey Soaked Oak cubes and a Stout

[Schnitzengiggle]

I have a stout ready to rack to secondary its ABV is roughly 6.5%, and I plan on racking on top of 4oz French Oak cubes which have been soaking in some Old No. 7 for about 2 months. I have a few questions.

1.) How long should I oak this beer? I have heard minimum of 8 weeks, I have heard ~6 months for cubes.

2.) How will my ABV play a role in the oak extraction, and time needed for adequate oak flavor?

3.)This stout is fairly chocolatey with a hint of roast, and I know that the flavors from a stout are very intense, will this require a longer aging period for the oak flavor to come through all of the other intense flavors?

My original plan was to secondary for 2 months, then bottle.

Can anyone provide any suggestions on what I might want to do in this situation?

Thanks, Cheers!

 

[Sebas83]

As far as I have read and experienced, oaking beer is done entirely to taste. There is little quantifiable info about what it does to flavor. When I oak, I take samples every two weeks.

I have never used whiskey soaked oak before, so I'm not sure what that will do. My intuition tells me that there are a few too many variables to take a shot. So, regular and well-noted samples are going to get you to your prize.

I would also think about splitting the batch into several carboys and trying a few options. At least, try keeping one small control carboy (one without the cubes) just so you have a comparison point as you age them.

Good luck!!

 

[Carter5112]

As Sebas83 mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a lot of quantifiable data for oaking so your best bet is probably do what your taste buds tell you.

I have 3 gallons of Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone sitting on 1 oz. of Hungarian Oak Cubes (I soaked the cubes in Woodford Reserve Bourbon for 2 weeks). After about 3 weeks I get maybe a hint of oak being there. I did my best to research this topic but didn't come up with much info. I anticipate leaving it on the oak through January or February.

FWIW, I think using 1 to 2 oz. of oak per 5 gallons on a darker, heavier bodied beer, for as long as you want shouldn't be a non-fixable problem. If it gets too much, then you'll just have to wait longer for it to age out. If the bourbon flavor doesn't come through like you want, you can always add a few ounces to taste at bottling/kegging. That seems to be a pretty popular method anyways...

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I have 4 oz of French Oak cubes that have been sitting in a pint mason jar full of whiskey for about 2 months, so I was thinking the 4oz might be a bit much, but may make the oaking go a bit faster due to the increased surface area of the larger amount of oak.

Am I incorrect, is it too much?

I plan to pour the entire contents of the mason jar, whiskey and all into the secondary before racking the beer onto it.

 

[Carter5112]

What is the volume of your batch?

The whiskey in the jar will be SUPER oaky. I opted to just add the cubes and add more whiskey later to taste. I don't think there is any benefit of aging the beer with the whiskey vs. adding it at bottling...

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

What is the volume of your batch?

The whiskey in the jar will be SUPER oaky. I opted to just add the cubes and add more whiskey later to taste. I don't think there is any benefit of aging the beer with the whiskey vs. adding it at bottling...

It is a 5 gallon batch, and there will be less than 16 oz of whiskey going in due to the 4 oz volume of oak cubes in the jar.

A fellow brewer from our local club mentioned that he had done something similar, and he claimed he had to keep dosing it more bourbon to get the flavor he was looking for, so he suggested adding the entire contents of the jar.

But I do see what you are saying, add the cubes, then dose with the whiskey the cubes soaked in to taste.

That makes sense.

 

[Sebas83]

Yup. This is ALL about taste. There aren't any numbers to go by, just your tongue. I think your approach will work. Add the cubes first, see what happens, then add in the whiskey. Since the whiskey has sat in oak already, it could add flavors that end up compounding and will be hard to recreate or isolate. You might also want to consider other whiskeys/bourbons to add in, say, at the end of your oak experiment. There are some interesting flavors out there in the bourbon world. Check out Willett and Bulleit bourbons. They have some interesting pronounced flavors that you may be looking for.

Think back to algebra class, too many variables makes the equation WAY hard to solve

 

[Carter5112]

The secret lies within the pythagorean theorem! Whiskey^2 + Oak^2 = Delicious^2

I added 4 oz oak to a pint jar as you did. I have occasionally had a glass or two of the whiskey and, while oaky, it is delicious. I think adding some oak to any bottle of whiskey may be a good thing, but I digress.

I think 4 oz of cubes plus 16 oz (cumulative) of whiskey will be overpowering. I'd start with 2 oz of cubes, maybe 4 oz. whiskey then give it two months. If you want more at that point, then go for it. Patience will pay off for wood ageing. Don't go overboard at first and you can't go wrong.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

This brings on another question, wouldn't the whiskey have extracted alot of the oak flavor from the cubes, hence requiring adding the whiskey into the beer?

 

[Carter5112]

That's a good point. Of course those cubes are also soaking that flavor back up too. I believe there are many layers of oak flavor that come over time and you're just dialing back the most up-front, pungent ones but not pitching the whiskey. I guess it depends on what you're going for. It's like when breweries use old barrels from distillers - the first batch in the barrel is potent, oak-whiskey punch to the face. The next batch is much more mellow and so on...

 

[MoronBrothersBrewery]

On the subject of adding oak, you guys ever oak age in the keg?

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

That's a good point. Of course those cubes are also soaking that flavor back up too. I believe there are many layers of oak flavor that come over time and you're just dialing back the most up-front, pungent ones but not pitching the whiskey. I guess it depends on what you're going for. It's like when breweries use old barrels from distillers - the first batch in the barrel is potent, oak-whiskey punch to the face. The next batch is much more mellow and so on...

Alright, I will start with the cubes, and some of the Old No.7, and taste accordingly.

This is my first attempt at oaking a beer and I don't want to ruin it, especially since I plan to bottle rather than keg this one for some long term storage.

Thanks for the advice.

Cheers!

 

[FRS]

This brings on another question, wouldn't the whiskey have extracted alot of the oak flavor from the cubes, hence requiring adding the whiskey into the beer?

The whiskey will def pick up a ton of oak flavors. I would reserve the extra-oaked whiskey to add back at bottling time (to taste). I did this with an oaked porter I just bottled and the results were good.

Other threads have recommended not using the whiskey from the soak stage b/c of 'sawdust' flavors... I tried the whiskey off my chips and it was delish, so I decided to use it. YMMV.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I removed all the oak cubes from the jar with a slotted spoon, and weighed them. I added a proportional amount. The original weight was 4oz, but soaked the cubes weighed 6.2oz, so I added 3.1 oz of the oak cubes which in relation would be equivalent to 2oz of dried.

I also added 4 oz of the whiskey infusion since it smelled magnificent. So that is the start, I will sample after 2 weeks, and every two weeks afterward until I feel the flavor is right.

I am going to bottle this batch, any suggestions on yeast? I have some S-04, and S-05, I definitely wont be adding any liquid cultures to this, Notty might be a good choice too since it is clean at lower temps. I don't want the bottling yeast to add any flavors.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!

FWIW, the original yeast was WLP013

 

[Carter5112]

Sounds delicious! I put a couple gallons of my breakfast stout on tart cherries too that I'm thinking of maybe blending with the bourbon oaked batch at a later date!

I used s-04 for my ferment. Are you sure you'll need to add more yeast at bottling? I haven't read much about yeast amount/vitality after extended ageing....

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Sounds delicious! I put a couple gallons of my breakfast stout on tart cherries too that I'm thinking of maybe blending with the bourbon oaked batch at a later date!

I used s-04 for my ferment. Are you sure you'll need to add more yeast at bottling? I haven't read much about yeast amount/vitality after extended ageing....

Yeah, I cold crashed at 33°F +/- 1°F for 48 hours, and the beer will secondary for at least 3+ weeks so I am almost certain that I will have to add yeast at bottling.

Whatever will impart the least flavor is what I am shooting for. Probably S-05, or Notty I'd assume.

I do have some Belgian liquid WLP530, but that will definitely add a little funky flavor to it which I am trying to avoid. I want the barrel aged flavor to shine.

 

[Challenger440]

To echo others, its all about taste. I have a stout that has been aging on oak since January 2nd. The first 6 months on 1 ounce, and I added another ounce in late june. It now has a complex and smooth oakiness. Its now getting some vanilla bean treatment before I bottle this beast soon.

 

[OldWorld]

I would use netural grain spirits over malted spirits. The oak flavor should come through. Perhaps do 2 ounces of burbon soaked and 2 ounces of vodka soaked... I'd leave it no more than three months then bottle asap. Some of these barrel aged beers take on too much of the booze flavor rather than the beer.

The finest example of distilled barrel aged beers would JW Lees Harvest Ale. They use burbon barrels, whiskey barrels and apple brandy barrels. Outstanding stuff. They also have a sherry cask beer. To die for...Good stuff.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I would use netural grain spirits over malted spirits. The oak flavor should come through. Perhaps do 2 ounces of burbon soaked and 2 ounces of vodka soaked... I'd leave it no more than three months then bottle asap. Some of these barrel aged beers take on too much of the booze flavor rather than the beer.

The finest example of distilled barrel aged beers would JW Lees Harvest Ale. They use burbon barrels, whiskey barrels and apple brandy barrels. Outstanding stuff. They also have a sherry cask beer. To die for...Good stuff.

I assume they blend though. Am I correct?

 

[DeutscheMaster]

As Sebas83 mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a lot of quantifiable data for oaking so your best bet is probably do what your taste buds tell you.

I have 3 gallons of Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone sitting on 1 oz. of Hungarian Oak Cubes (I soaked the cubes in Woodford Reserve Bourbon for 2 weeks). After about 3 weeks I get maybe a hint of oak being there. I did my best to research this topic but didn't come up with much info. I anticipate leaving it on the oak through January or February.
.

Sorry to thread jack, but do you care to share your Breakfast Stout Clone recipe?

 

[Gritsak]

I recently added oak soaked in bourbon (1month soaked) to a RIS. I used 1oz of soaked cubes and .25oz of fresh cubes. I chose not to add the bourbon, but kept it in a jar to add later if needed. I ended up keeping the oak in for about 2 months. When i reached approximately what i wanted from the oak, i left it in another 2 weeks. I did this to account for some fading since the beer will age another 3-6 months before serving.

 

[Darkness]

I have done a number of Oaked stouts and bourbon soaked oak as well. I soak the oak cubes till they are all sitting on the bottom of bottel or about 2 months. 2oz of American med. is what I have done. I have a Bourbon Oaked Russian Imperial Stout sitting right now can't wait to bottle it.
Keg1 Vanilla Coffee Milk Stout
Keg2 APA
Keg3 Gereman Rye
Keg4 Robust Porter
Keg5 Dark Saison

Primary empty
Secondary 20gal Black Imperial IPA , Belguim Wit, Apple Wood Smoked IPA dry hopped w/ Citra

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Bump.

I brewed my oak aged whiskey barrel stout, again.

However, this time the oak cubes had been soaking for a week or two over the one year mark.

The roughly 3.5 oz of cubes, and 4 oz of the whisky it was soaking in aged for 3 months in the bottle.

The brew is spectacular! I thought about saving a few to submit to a comp., but I can't part with them, they are soooo good!

Anyhow, cheers!

3rd recipe down, 5 more to go.