Whirlpool Technique?

[Enoch52]

I'm thinking about making Denny's Rye Smile before long, and looking at the recipe it calls for whirlpool hops. I'm somewhat familiar with the technique, but I'm concerned about chilling the wort as quickly as possible to avoid contamination. I wanted to run the following technique by the community to see if it makes sense:

At flameout, add whirlpool hops and stir vigorously for 1-2 min (I have a mix-stir, basically a propeller on a shaft that attaches to a drill), and then immediately start chilling.

My thought is this adds very little time to the chilling period and hopefully accomplishes everything that a whirlpool is supposed to.

 

[eric19312]

I would not do that.

The mix and stir is going to be too vigorous. All you really need is a gentle stir to keep the hops from settling to a layer on the bottom.

Also there is no issue with contamination at typical whirlpool temperatures. I chill my kettle to about 185F then stop and add the whirlpool hops. I use a pump to keep them moving but steeping and occasional stirring is just fine. 30 min later my kettle will be about 17oF and I start chilling again. This time I bring the wort to pitching temps as quick as I can. The danger zone for contamination is probably somewhere below 150F and above 90F. Do your whirlpool above 160 and you are safe.

 

[Enoch52]

I would not do that.

The mix and stir is going to be too vigorous. All you really need is a gentle stir to keep the hops from settling to a layer on the bottom.

Also there is no issue with contamination at typical whirlpool temperatures. I chill my kettle to about 185F then stop and add the whirlpool hops. I use a pump to keep them moving but steeping and occasional stirring is just fine. 30 min later my kettle will be about 17oF and I start chilling again. This time I bring the wort to pitching temps as quick as I can. The danger zone for contamination is probably somewhere below 150F and above 90F. Do your whirlpool above 160 and you are safe.

Awesome, thanks. So basically the difference between whirlpool hops and flameout hops is a gentle stir and a bit of a wait.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I would say the temperature "danger zone" is anything below 135°F - there is no bottom end. Which is why it's best to pitch quickly so the yeast population can dominate the wort and turn it even more acidic before any nasty wee beasties can get started...

Cheers!

 

[Enoch52]

So is the main advantage of whirlpool over flameout the possibility of transferring less hop particulate to the fermenter?

 

[eric19312]

Awesome, thanks. So basically the difference between whirlpool hops and flameout hops is a gentle stir and a bit of a wait.

Sometimes I do both flameout and whirlpool. They are similar but in theory the hops steeped in 180 wort tend to be more aromatic.

 

[Enoch52]

Maybe I'm not clear on the difference, then. Don't both whirlpool and flameout hops go into the brewpot at flameout?

 

[day_trippr]

Flame-out hops go in immediately at flame-out.
Whirlpool hops go in after the kettle has been cooled below 180°F.
The former adds substantially more IBUs than the latter...

Cheers!

 

[Enoch52]

Flame-out hops go in immediately at flame-out.
Whirlpool hops go in after the kettle has been cooled below 180°F...

Cheers!

Ah, ok! Thanks!

 

[JonathanOst]

Sounds fine. Hot-side aeration might be a concern. John Palmer mentions it in How to Brew, but Brulosphy did 2 exBEERiments (part 1, part 2) on it and neither led to significant results.

Whirlpool hops should be added around 170ºF and leave them for 20-30 minutes. Your wort should be alright to sit around that temperature without worrying about contamination unless you're brewing in cold weather. Once that's done, feel free to chill like you normally would.

I've tried just whirlpooling for a few minutes and then chilling, but definitely didn't get as much hop character in the beer as I did with waiting 20+ minutes.