which yeast would work better

[Donner]

I'm brewing an English IPA today and the recipe calls for nottingham, which i have back from the recall. I was sitting in bed last night and realized i need to rack my OktoberFAST off the s-04 yeast cake today.

My question is would it be okay to just rack onto the s-04 yeast cake? I don't know enough about the two yeasts to know if they are interchangeable, but i think they are both english ale yeasts.

thanks.

 

[david_42]

The S-04 will work fine.

 

[Donner]

thanks, another dumb question then. If i want to pitch onto the yeast cake, i obviously rack the beer out of the bucket and replace it with the new wort. DO i need to try to sanitize the sides of the bucket with star-san before adding the new wort or do i just be careful and assume the yeast will overtake anything bad that might get in?

Also, i just remember the oktoberFAST fermentation got a little hot (74), would that impact the quality of the yeast for the EIPA? Does that change the answer to whether i should use the 04?

 

[flipper51]

I wouldn't try to sanitize part of a fermenter with the yeast still in there. If your previous batch was infected with anything, that would also be in the yeast slurry. But it's probably not. If you are concerned about infection, I'd recommend tasting a little bit of your o-fest batch before reusing the yeast.

On the other point - I have found S-04 to be pretty sensitive to temperature, in that it can produce very clean beers (like S05) at 60 degrees, while being quite fruity up in the 70s. However, AFAIK, as long as you are within the yeast's healthy temperature range (59 to 80, maybe a little higher), different temps will in no way change the yeast itself such that the next batch is predisposed on way or the other.

If you had fermented at, say, 90 degrees, you might have actually permanently changed your yeast by running a little evolution experiment in your kitchen.

I like S04 a lot, but I always try to keep it close to 60 degrees. In my experience the esters you get up in the 70s are inconsistent -- I've had good fruity and bad fruity. I hope your o-fest is good fruity -- good luck!

 

[Donner]

It was a brain fart that led to the 74° ferment temps; it wasn't intentional. It's malty enough that the fruit doesn't come through as noticeably as it would for something lighter. Either way, though, it's drinkable and was a learning experience.

thanks for the help.

 

[ajf]

I wouldn't like to use S-04 for an English IPA because in my experience, it is too estery and doesn't attenuate well enough. Admittedly, I have never tried fermenting below about 65F. I think the Nottingham would be better (cleaner fermentation and higher attenuation).

-a.

 

[flipper51]

Nothing attenuates higher than Notty, but S04 is still one of the dryer yeasts out there. Notty is such a monster that it scares me a little; i don't have great consistency with my mash temperatures, and don't like to use it if my mash was on the lower end of the temperature range.

This question comes down to what you want in an English IPA - I actually don't know exactly what that is! I was interpreting English to mean a little maltier and fruitier than an American, hence the S04.

 

[Donner]

From the reading i've done it's clear the line between English IPA and ESB isn't always clear. The numbers are similar, but one description had ESBs being a bit breadier/toastier than the IPA. I really don't know what i want this to be other than an attempt to make a hoppy beer with english hops (i've failed thus far in my hoppy beer pursuit).

I have no problem using either yeast, but i admit i was curious about pitching onto a yeast cake since i've never done it before. I don't know enough about the two to really say which would be better. I've had good luck with both and it's not really about saving money. The recipe called for english ale yeast or notty, but i thought i'd put the 04 out there since i have it in the bucket.

I guess it might come down to if i can get the beer racked off the cake in time.

 

[ajf]

If you are going for a hoppy English style ale, then you should choose whichever yeast gives the results you like. I use the S-04 occasionally for special bitters on the rare occasions that I run out of liquid yeast. I find that it produces a very fruity, estery brew; but as I said, I have never tried fermenting lower than 65F.
I only tried Nottingham once, and didn't like it. (I tried it in a special bitter, and it came out much too dry with none of the yeast character that I am used to, but it should be fine in the right beer.)
Another dry yeast that may be worth considering is Windsor. This appears to fall somewhere between S-04 (sweet) and Nottingham (dry). I also tried that once, and didn't get along with it, but others have said that it works well for them.
You say that you have so far failed in your hoppy beer pursuit. I think that you will continue to do so if you are using English hops, and trying to get a similar effect to an American IPA. The English hops tend to have a very delicate aroma and flavor compared to most American hops, and the effect of the hops can be quite subtle.
A friend of mine (who is used to drinking American IPA's) tried one of my English IPA's a couple years ago, and said he couldn't taste the hops at all. It had 8 0z of hops in a 5g batch, and an estimated 86 IBU's. Just goes to show what C hops do to your taste buds.

-a.

 

[Donner]

You say that you have so far failed in your hoppy beer pursuit. I think that you will continue to do so if you are using English hops, and trying to get a similar effect to an American IPA. The English hops tend to have a very delicate aroma and flavor compared to most American hops, and the effect of the hops can be quite subtle.
A friend of mine (who is used to drinking American IPA's) tried one of my English IPA's a couple years ago, and said he couldn't taste the hops at all. It had 8 0z of hops in a 5g batch, and an estimated 86 IBU's. Just goes to show what C hops do to your taste buds.

-a.

I'm actually not a fan of the APAs and IPAs in general. They are good at times, but not really my thing (don't like grapefruit). Hence the reason for the english IPA. When i saw i haven't had luck with hoppy beers i meant it in more of a general sense. I haven't had much luck with any of the ESBs i've tried to brew to get a good hop flavor/bitterness. Maybe drinking redhook (which i know uses american hops) isn't the best to compare my homebrew to, but the attempts i've made at brewing an ESB have left me with a harsher bitter than i enjoyed.

It could be a lot of different things, but today's brew was really meant to test my water treatment more than anything. Up until now i've been using walmart spring water, but today i used my tap water and adjusted with salts to hopefully get a better tasting hop in my beer. I didn't go crazy, but it was an attempt to see what happens.

My E IPA wasn't too overboard, either. OG was 1.063, shooting for about 45 IBUs and 11.2 SRM. Used 1 oz galena (had on hand and didn't want to buy challenger) at 60 min, 1.8 oz fuggles at 10 min and 1.8 oz EKG at flame out. Hopefully i get something with a bit better flavor this time and that maybe has some subtler hop notes than just bitter.

Oh, and i would have made another attempt at an ESB, but i still have several gallons on hand and can't justify making a second version just yet, plus a friend really wanted an English IPA so i thought i'd give it a try.