Which saison yeast?

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Miraculix

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Good afternoon,

I know that this topic has been discussed quite a bit, but new yeasts emerge all the time and many people make new experience and lots of them like to share those experiences.

Hence my question, which saison yeast shall I use?

I am looking forward to brewing a very simple saison, not too hoppy, only bittering additions, really simple grain bill, pale and wheat, and hopefully a yeast that really brings the flavour I am looking for.

I like saisons which are not so much on the clovey banana side of life but more on the peppery leather-ish direction.

I have tried belle saison once and it was pretty boring.

For now, I want to use nothing with Brett in it.

What would you suggest for room temperature fermentation to get this flavour profile I am after? 3711?
 
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tellyho

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Good afternoon,

I know that this topic has been discussed quite a bit, but new yeasts emerge all the time and many people make new experience and lots of them like to share those experiences.

Hence my question, which saison yeast shall I use?

I am looking forward brewing a very simple saison, not too hoppy, only bittering additions, really simple grain bill, pale and wheat, and hopefully a yeast that really brings the flavour I am looking for.

I like saisons which are not so much on the clovey banana side of life but more on the peppery leather-ish direction.

I have tried belle saison once and it was pretty boring.

For now, I want to use nothing with Brett in it.

What would you suggest for room temperature fermentation to get this flavour profile I am after? 3711?
If you're looking for peppery/spicy, I would concur with your choice of 3711.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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If you're looking for peppery/spicy, I would concur with your choice of 3711.
Ich think peppery/spicy would describe what I am looking for.

Is there any alternative that goes into the same direction? Maybe even dry?
 

beerlover77

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3711 is great but with any saison you have to ferment warm to get the best of those flavours. I start at 72f and raise to 86f throughout ferment with that yeast.

I thought belle saison was kinda a dry equivelent?
 

Steveruch

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3711 is great but with any saison you have to ferment warm to get the best of those flavours. I start at 72f and raise to 86f throughout ferment with that yeast.

I thought belle saison was kinda a dry equivelent?
I don't know if it's a dry equivalent, but the one saison that I've brewed was fermented by belle saison and I got some nice peppery/spicy notes.
 

catdaddy66

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Love 3711 and Belle Saison. Have used both and noted better spice with higher temps. I recently got some wlp565 but have yet to try it out. That will change in the next month or two.
 

deadwolfbones

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I love 3711/Belle and use them most often, but I also enjoyed WY3726 when I used it—sort of a halfway point between 3711 and 3724.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

Not disagreeing with 3711, but it might also be worth looking at https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts for more info.
Thanks, I already read this one, that is where my 3711 idea comes from.

The one time i used belle (is it really the same as 3711?) was actually a non-hopped beer, using some herbs instead. Maybe they are masking the peppery/spicy notes and maybe this is why I thought it is a bit boring.

when researching I stumbled over Omega OYL 042 Belgian Saison II.

The descrption sounds pretty much exactly like what I am looking for. Anybody tried this one?

And btw. I know most of these strains are highly attenuative. But how is the attenuation going to happen? Is it like "normal" beer yeast, it just chews its way through all the sugar in almost the same speed for the whole fermentation or is it slowing down significantly as soon as only long chained carbonhydrates are left only?

I really try to avoid thinking that it is finished but in reality it only slowed down.... thinking of bursting bottles and gushers...
 

brownni5

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OYL 042 is reportedly the same strain as Wyeast 3726, so you might 1. Find more opinions on that and 2. Have an easier time finding that (though, for some reason, NB carries Pro pitch strains in home brew sizes).

Most will say Belle performs like 3711, but I don't think too many equate the two.

Don't worry about bottle bombs with saison yeasts. They might take a little longer than say Chico yeast, but not like Brett where it keeps going and going.

I've never used it, but 3711 will reportedly ferment an old shoe - it should finish up quickly and reliably.

I would ignore attenuation expectations unless they list 90%+. For instance, Wyeast lists 1388 at something like 78% (though not a Saison yeast) and then says it's a diastaticus. I for one would be disappointed to see only 80% AA with anything Belgian.

Edit: I just finished up a low gravity Farmhouse beer where I did one split with Omega Jovaru. It's still carbonating, but initial samples were pretty peppery with a little citrus and hit 84% AA with no sugar addition. It might make into my rotation.
 
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beerlover77

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Interesting. Is it a diastaticus? Listed with a pretty low attenuation for a saison strain!
3711 is diastaticus but careful cleaning and santization seems to keep it from spreading to other beers
3711 goes down to 1.00sg often for me
 

couchsending

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I hate French Saison yeast personally.

Most homebrewers like it cause it’s easy.

Blending saison yeast is a great way to go. All you need is literally 10% of 3711 but you get the ester profile of the main yeast and the predictable fermentation of 3711.

Highly recommend the saison strains available from The Yeast Bay. Great variety and no stalling issues
 
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myndflyte

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Just kegged a saison that was fermented with 3711. OG was 1.065 and it fermented it all the way down to 1.000. My brew belt could only get it up to about 80F in my basement but that yeast is a beast.

If you're looking into using 3724 but don't want to have to deal with the stalling that some say happens, you could always pitch 3724 and 3711 to get the Belgian characteristics but not have to deal with any stalling.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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OYL 042 is reportedly the same strain as Wyeast 3726, so you might 1. Find more opinions on that and 2. Have an easier time finding that (though, for some reason, NB carries Pro pitch strains in home brew sizes).

Most will say Belle performs like 3711, but I don't think too many equate the two.

Don't worry about bottle bombs with saison yeasts. They might take a little longer than say Chico yeast, but not like Brett where it keeps going and going.

I've never used it, but 3711 will reportedly ferment an old shoe - it should finish up quickly and reliably.

I would ignore attenuation expectations unless they list 90%+. For instance, Wyeast lists 1388 at something like 78% (though not a Saison yeast) and then says it's a diastaticus. I for one would be disappointed to see only 80% AA with anything Belgian.

Edit: I just finished up a low gravity Farmhouse beer where I did one split with Omega Jovaru. It's still carbonating, but initial samples were pretty peppery with a little citrus and hit 84% AA with no sugar addition. It might make into my rotation.
Peppery with little citrus sounds great!

I think I really like saisons that don't bring those phenolic clovey flavor tot the table. I like this in wheat beer but not in a saison.

So at the moment it is 3776 or omega jovaru.
 
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tellyho

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I will say that I recommended 3711 based on your requirements, but I don't use it anymore because I found the flavor profile boring. I currently like T58 for saisons but I'm sure others will opine that it's not a saison yeast.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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I will say that I recommended 3711 based on your requirements, but I don't use it anymore because I found the flavor profile boring. I currently like T58 for saisons but I'm sure others will opine that it's not a saison yeast.
I might still have half a package of belle somewhere in my fridge.... Maybe I'll brew a quick and small test batch, like 70/30 pale/spelt flour with it if I ever free one of my fermenters. I'll take a look at the fridge tonight. If I already got it, I'll give it a try.
 

couchsending

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Big fan of 3522 personally. Not really a “saison” yeast but it’s especially great with Brett. It’s not diastaticus so if you want more attenuation without Brett mix a little 3711 or belle in there. If you want some spice just add a little bit of pepper at flameout. Phenols are nice and restrained and I don’t get banana out of it. Doesn’t need to be fermented hot either.

Its also the only highly flocculent Belgian yeast which is nice.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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Big fan of 3522 personally. Not really a “saison” yeast but it’s especially great with Brett. It’s not diastaticus so if you want more attenuation without Brett mix a little 3711 or belle in there. If you want some spice just add a little bit of pepper at flameout. Phenols are nice and restrained and I don’t get banana out of it. Doesn’t need to be fermented hot either.

Its also the only highly flocculent Belgian yeast which is nice.
This actually also sounds really interesting. My goodness... so much to choose from.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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I just found half a pack of belle saison in my fridge. I will brew a small quick and dirty batch to evaluate this one. Like 70 pale, 30 spelt flower, 25 Ibus only bittering addition. Maybe a little bit of Motueka at 5min.

I'll chill it down to about 30C and pitch and wrap in in a sleeping bag. Let's see what happens!
 

tellyho

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I like it. Keep us posted. That's probably the one saison yeast I haven't used. I like the style a lot and pretty much have one on hand year-round.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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I like it. Keep us posted. That's probably the one saison yeast I haven't used. I like the style a lot and pretty much have one on hand year-round.
What? you haven't used the easiest available one? I haven't used one but this one :D

I think I'll up the ibus to 30, og to 1.06 and do a split batch with Voss kveik :)
 

Alex413

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Does anybody have any experience of using mangrove jacks m29 or fermentis be 134 compared to belle saison?
 

Northern_Brewer

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Without giving too much away, MJ don't have any of their own yeasts, they just repack other people's and Lallemand is one of the companies they work with....
 
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