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Which makes more ABV?

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macabra11

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An early addition of extract, or a late addition?

Let's say it is a recipe you are creating, there is a 60 min boil and you are adding 6 pounds of DME. Would you get more fermentable sugar (higher gravity and ABV%) from adding ALL of the DME early, middle, late????
:confused:
 

lowend

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That's a good question; I often wonder the same thing. From what I've heard, it shouldn't make a difference, but honestly I'm not sure.

What about longer boils?
What's the shortest that a boil can be?
How much LME is needed to equal the amount of DME?

These are the questions that keep me up at night.
 

ChshreCat

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If you're doing all extract, than the boil time is really for the hops more than the extract.

LME and DME are not equal. I don't remember the ratio off the top of my head but if someone doesn't post it in a follow-up, then it's easily found by searching.

A late extract addition is done mainly to keep the extract from getting caramelized and darkening more than you want, and some folks feel it helps cut back on the "extract twang flavor".
 

malkore

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Its the same amount of extract, so the same amount of fermentables, so the same ABV.
 
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macabra11

macabra11

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So the timing is just for color control? Later addition, Lighter color? How much of a difference does this make?
 

Tenchiro

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I have never seen any documentation that stated that the [SIZE=-1]Maillard Reaction causes sugars to become less fermentable by yeast. Most people use late addition extract methods to control caramelization of the sugars (and the wort darkening that goes along with it) in partial volume boils.
[/SIZE]
 

lowend

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If you're doing all extract, than the boil time is really for the hops more than the extract.
So, if I just wanted to boil my hops for 15 minutes, could I safely add the malt extract, bring the wort to a boil, add the hops, and after 15 minutes be done? Basically, I want to know if I can safely cook the wort for a total of 15 minutes, or if there is some minimum required boiling time.
 

ChshreCat

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So, if I just wanted to boil my hops for 15 minutes, could I safely add the malt extract, bring the wort to a boil, add the hops, and after 15 minutes be done? Basically, I want to know if I can safely cook the wort for a total of 15 minutes, or if there is some minimum required boiling time.
Sure, you COULD. But you wouldn't get much bittering in 15 minutes. You'd probably end up with a really, really sweet beer.
 

Tenchiro

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When I do late additions I save the bulk of the extract for the last 15 minutes and have never had a problem. You do need some maltose in the water to aid with hop utilization and I generally add about 1# of extract at the beginning of the boil for that.

But you need to boil the bittering hops for at least 60 minutes for proper utilization no matter when you add the extract.
 

lowend

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So, essentially you just need to boil the wort for as long as you want to boil the hops for to get the right bitterness from them? And the shorter the extract is boiled the lighter the beer will turn out?
 

ChshreCat

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So, essentially you just need to boil the wort for as long as you want to boil the hops for to get the right bitterness from them? And the shorter the extract is boiled the lighter the beer will turn out?
Well, the color comes form the type of extract and whatever else, but boiling it for a shorter time lowers the chance that it will get darker than intended.

If you are going all grain, or at least doing a partial mash, then you want to make sure to do at least a 60 minute boil. But for extract only... yeah, the hops will guide your boil time. Add some of your extract at the start and save the rest for the last 15 minutes or so.

On my last brew I did a partial mash, brought that wort up to a boil, added half my LME when I added my bittering hops, then added the rest of the LME with my 15 minute hops.
 

lowend

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Well, the color comes form the type of extract and whatever else, but boiling it for a shorter time lowers the chance that it will get darker than intended.

If you are going all grain, or at least doing a partial mash, then you want to make sure to do at least a 60 minute boil. But for extract only... yeah, the hops will guide your boil time. Add some of your extract at the start and save the rest for the last 15 minutes or so.

On my last brew I did a partial mash, brought that wort up to a boil, added half my LME when I added my bittering hops, then added the rest of the LME with my 15 minute hops.
I haven't crossed the all grain barrier yet, but I do steep some grains (crystal, black patent...) in the pot until the water comes to a boil and then I remove them. I assume that shouldn't change any of the stuff that everyone has been saying on here. Also, when you added the last of the LME, did you add the hops right away or did you wait for the wort to come back to a boil and then start the 15 minute count?
 

Donthoseme

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So there is a lot of noob banter about the boiling and abv and other nonsense. Here is the BJCP recognized 7 reasons for boiling.

1. Extracts isomerizes and dissolves the hop alpha acids
2. stop enzymatic activity (all grain only)
3. Kills bacteria, fungi, and wild yeast
4. Coagulates undesired proteins and polyphenols in the hot break
5. evaporates undesireable harsh hop oils, sulfer compounds, ketones, and esters
6. promotes the formulation of melanoidins and caramelizes some of the wort sugars (although this is not desireable in all styles)
7. evaporates water vapor, condensing the wort to the proper volume and gravity (this is not the primary reason, it's a side effect of the process)

So there are a lot of things boiling will do but when you add the extract will have NOTHING to do with alcohol. The only thing that will make more alcohol is more fermentable sugar.
 
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