Where's The Pepper???

[rodwha]

I had bought Fermentis T-58 as the peppery flavor profile sounded interesting. I ended up making a witbier recipe using Grains of Paradise and some lemon zest to work with Mt Hood hops thinking the "spicy" flavor might work well with it.

However it doesn't have anything remotely pepper-like. In fact it almost has a flavor something like the caramel/butterscotch I find in Old Speckled Hen or Fuller's than it does anything else. I'm dumbfounded to say the least, though it still tastes great. It's just nothing like what I wanted or expected.

This is the 5 gal recipe I made:

3 lbs 2-row
2.5 lbs soft white wheat berries
4 lbs wheat LME (FO)
3/4 oz Mt Hood @ 77 mins
1/4 oz Mt Hood @ 21 mins
1 oz Grains of Paradise & 0.045 oz lemon zest @ 7 mins
T-58 yeast

1.057/1.017
5.3% ABV
16 IBU's
3 SRM

I don't recall if the yeast was at or just past its expiration date. If it was past it was by a month or two. It may have had a month to go. This seems to be the only explanation...

 

[unionrdr]

I had the same problem with WY3711 French saison yeast. Didn't get the peppery ester it's said to give off. Maybe needed more than 1oz of grains of paradise? Did you crush them at all?

 

[ButcherBoy]

Sometimes the spicy flavor takes a little aging to come out of hiding, I brewed a Saison last year that was spicer after it was 2-3 months in the bottle. Can't really say about the grains of paradise as I've never used them. Also watch the ferment temp, higher is said to bring out the spicy notes of the yeast. Check the specs of the T58 for its temp range and try higher and lower in the range to see what you prefer.

 

[rodwha]

I used a spice grinder for most of it.

I fermented at 64*, right in the middle. It's my set temp for everything.

 

[unionrdr]

Gotta find the brewsheet for the saison,But I think the temp got up to 78F. I though that'd be enough to get the ester. Even with T-58?

 

[rodwha]

So should I have fermented closer to 68*, the upper end?

 

[aprichman]

That's a bummer rodwha, although it sounds like you got some really great beer none the less.

I finished off the last of my batch brewed with T58 a couple of weeks ago and the pepper was really coming through strong.

Did you rehydrate your yeast? I think I did a straight pitch into the wort (full packet into 2.5 gallons of 1.05x wort) for that batch.

 

[rodwha]

I did rehydrate it.

I certainly didn't get what I wanted. At least it still tastes great, and I'd brew it again as is, though I'm certainly going to try this one again in an attempt for the pepper. I suppose I'll need to try more Grains of Paradise. I knew I was a little short on the lemon zest and considered also using a bit of orange, but didn't know what I'd get and didn't want to use orange alone.

 

[aprichman]

I did rehydrate it.

I certainly didn't get what I wanted. At least it still tastes great, and I'd brew it again as is, though I'm certainly going to try this one again in an attempt for the pepper. I suppose I'll need to try more Grains of Paradise. I knew I was a little short on the lemon zest and considered also using a bit of orange, but didn't know what I'd get and didn't want to use orange alone.

What about using whole black peppercorns in the boil as well?

 

[rodwha]

I've actually wondered about that. We have a mix of colors/types of pepper corns (red, white, and black).

 

[rodwha]

I'm wondering if I should let them sit a while and see if it comes out later. Being that they taste quite good now there may not be many that make it long enough!

 

[aprichman]

I've actually wondered about that. We have a mix of colors/types of pepper corns (red, white, and black).

I bet they would be good, although it's probably one of those ingredients where a LITTLE bit goes a LONG way

 

[rodwha]

Yea. And I've never heard of anyone using them before. I do love pepper though!

 

[unionrdr]

As I understand it, grains of paradise are a species of pepper corn? African I think? The next time I try WY3711, I'll have to push the temp over 78F & see if that brings out more pepper? Even after aging the saison in bottles a couple months, only a small number of them got even a hint of pepper...

 

[aprichman]

FWIW I got pepper from T58 @ ~64F

 

[unionrdr]

Makes me wonder how many get the pepper flavor at low temps versus high temps?

 

[rodwha]

I'm questioning whether my lack of pepper was more due to age. But then I've not used this strain before and haven't seen anything about temps and flavors as I have with others.

I'm just glad it's still quite good. Wish I had someone knowledgeable who would drink one and tell me what they get from it. I can't quite place the flavor, but it's upfront for sure.