Where can I find info on high OG brewing?

[looneybomber]

Hi, new here and after a day of searching, I can't find the info I need.

I would like to try adding steeped grains to my extract for the first time and make it a high gravity brew. I've read quite of a few of the RIS threads and other high gravity threads (DFH 120min) and hear how they add yeast part way through the primary, and/or add more wort/sugar.

How do I know if/when I need to do this?

What I am trying to do is brew an RIS with an OG of 1.104 using Wyeast trappist high grav 3787, the one used in Avery Meph stout.

If I don't make a very big starter, will the yeast be able to eat that wort up or, will the starting gravity be too high, causing me to dilute it and add more wort later?
Thanks.

*Purposed ingredients if it helps.*

Batch size 5gal
Boil size 4ga *edit* I forgot all about this, but I have plenty of room for a large starter being that I will need to add quite a bit of water to reach my 5gal brew size. I may be able to increase my boil size, but I need another boil pot.

6lb Amber LME
6lb Dark LME

1.5lb Crystal 120L
1.0lb Crystal 80L
0.75lb Chocolate
0.75lb Roasted Barley
0.5lb Carapils (mouthfeel?)
0.25lb Coffee malt.

4oz Glacier pellets @ 60min
2oz Willamette pellets @ 2min

Wyeast trappist high grav 3787

(From brewersfriend)
Boil time: 60min
Efficiency: 65%

Original Gravity: 1.104
Final Gravity: 1.025
ABV: 10.38%
IBU: 45.81 (thought it'd be higher?)
SRM: 40.00

 

[hoppymonkey]

There are tons of threads on here for this type of beer. A few tips for this particular beer.

1. You need to oxygenate very well.
2. You defintely need a large yeast starter to make sure you don't end up with a stuck fermentation .
3. 10.5% is not that big for that particular yeast so I think it will be fine. Just stick to the temp range for it and leave it on primary for at least 3 months and 6 would be better.

Check out Mr. malty for the starter size.

 

[Wolfhound180]

That's not a partial mash. I would replace maybe half of the extract for some 2 row and mash that. I forgot the calculation for extract to grain but it should be easy to google.

With the yeast, I would make a starter for sure. Maybe a small one though so that you will get some of the off favors that the yeast will supply.

 

[Wolfhound180]

That is also too much crystal looking again. I would cut down both of them to .5 each or so.

 

[boist]

I'd double think the yeast.
You're choosing the yeast based on it's alcohol tolerance property, which is understandable. But remember that the yeast is also going to give you an ester profile that is associated more with Belgian Trappist beer, rather than a stout.
I would suggest instead using something like WLP004 or 007 for the profile. See how far that'll take you (004, for example is listed as having tolerance of 8-12%, so it may be enough on it's own) and then, if you end up with a gravity that's too high, you can try to add a different kind of high-tolerance, neutral yeast (champagne, for example) to do the final stage.

Beyond that, I would double stress the oxygenation thing. Very important.

 

[looneybomber]

1. You need to oxygenate very well.
2. You defintely need a large yeast starter to make sure you don't end up with a stuck fermentation .
3. 10.5% is not that big for that particular yeast so I think it will be fine. Just stick to the temp range for it and leave it on primary for at least 3 months and 6 would be better.

Check out Mr. malty for the starter size.

Yeah, I've read through quite a few of the RIS threads, but apparently I didn't pick up on the how-did-they-know-to-do-that things they did with their beers. Primary example, late additions of wort and sugar. I've never brewed anything over 1050 so going over 1100 is new to me. Consequently, I wanted a weak (relatively speaking) enough wort and a powerful enough yeast to make things easy on me so I could just pitch and relax.

#3. That is good to know. I didn't want to go too big, because I also have to bottle condition/carb, so I still need some yeasties for that. But do I really want it to sit on primary for 3-6mo and then bottle?

That's not a partial mash.

I must have incorrectly used the word. I planned to primarily extract brew and steep grains instead of just using extract and hops only.

Thanks.

 

[looneybomber]

That is also too much crystal looking again. I would cut down both of them to .5 each or so.

If I was looking for some of the body and sweetness similar to Goose Island BCS, would I still want to decrease the crystal?

I'd doubt think the yeast.
You're choosing the yeast based on it's alcohol tolerance property, which is understandable. But remember that the yeast is also going to give you an ester profile that is associated more with Belgian Trappist beer, rather than a stout.

Well, I was going to choose Wyeast British 1098 and use less grain, but I read in a thread that Avery Mephistopheles stout (my favorite stout once aged) uses 3787! (which might be why I like that beer so much, because I love triples/quads) Being that it can handle 12%, I figured I'd add some more grain to make use of the yeast and give it a higher FG.

I noticed this thread is kind of heading towards a different direction than I had thought, so if the mods want this in a different sub-forum, feel free.

 

[Calder]

Use that yeast if that is what you want. It will give you lots of flavors. Make sure you ferment high, or it might drop out on you.

4.75 lbs of specialty grains is a lot. Way too much in my opinion. I think you would be very lucky to get down to 1.025 with all these in there, and even there it would taste too sweet.

If you want to do something similar to Avery Mephistopheles, run a search of the forum and you will come up with several recipes.

 

[looneybomber]

Well I would like to do a blend of Mephestopheles and Bourbon County Stout and error closer to the sweeter side because my wife likes BCS more. Is that still too much grain if I want a sweetness and body close to BCS? And when you say ferment high, are you talking 70* or more like 75*? After some more coffee this morning, I realized I can make a pretty big starter, upwards of 1gal if I need to.

My not-so-educated guess is I could get a similar BCS sweetness and some Meph like undertones using the Meph yeast. In either case, I definately don't want a mess of a beer that isn't pleasant to drink, so I can easily change things with the grains.

I'll be doing quite a bit more searching on Meph and BCS recipes. I feel more comfortable about my yeast situation now that I can do a large starter.
Thanks.