When to step mash?

[vdub117]

I've got two AG batches under my belt right now, and I've been going with a fly by the seat of my pants RDWHAHB approach so far just to get a feel for the additional steps and equipment. Everything has gone smoothly so far and now I'm wondering when to step mash instead of a single infusion. From what I've read fully modified grains can get away just fine with a single infusion, and under-modified grains need a step mash to extract proteins, right?

SO...is there a good source for info on what grains are fully or under modified?

 

[wonderbread23]

This is a pretty debatable topic with some people who feel passionately about it on both sides of the fence. Personally, I do it when:

- Almost all of my beers get a step at 168-170 at the end of the mash. I do this to lock in my sugar profile and aide in lautering.

- For hefeweizens I tend to do a feurlic acid rest to encourage clove phenolics.

- For German lagers I tend to do a 3 step decoction to encourage color and melanoiden development without adding additional specialty malts.

- For beers using a large portion of lesser modified german pilsner malts, I tend to do a short protein rest to encourage clarity in the final beer.

 

[keg2881]

Please for give the thread hijack.

Is there a way to get a round the step mashing? I've been wanting to brew some sort of lager but don't want all the hassle of step mashing. Or am I missing something huge here?

 

[VladOfTrub]

Step mash at the least for lagers and pilsners. Decoction will give you a rounder smooth maltiness and a clearer product as you are taking the entire mash through all the rest temps three times. You'll get a slightly higher yield with a decoction. The way I see it, if you have to boil water for the rest temps. Why not boil the decoction? It takes less BTUs to bring a gallon of mash to a boil than a gallon of water. As wonderbread mentioned, go to 168. This step is important for a few reasons. Like wonderbread said, it stops conversion and malt sugars are most soluable at 168. Another reason is that you don't need to sparge with water over 170 degrees. Higher temps will strip out tannin. If you convert at 155 and begin to sparge with your mash temp at 155. It will take a lot of hot sparge water to reach solubility temp.. The run off gravity will be low until the mash hits 168. By then you'll have a kettle full of wort that will need to be boiled down to get to the gravity expected. Or, you'll need to recirculate the wort thru the mash to hit expected gravity.

 

[MoodyCopperpot]

I haven't done step mashing yet, so I don't want to sound like I know what I'm talking about. However, I just read that section in Gordon Strong's book "Brewing Better Beer" and it has to do with what enzymes you want to extract from the grain. Off the top of my head I can't think of the difference between A-amalayse and B-amalayse, but it spells it out really nicely in the book. I'd reccomend picking it up. It will answer MANY of your questions with AG brewing

 

[pjj2ba]

This to me is one of the beauties of brewing. All kinds of variables to play with! I brew a fair bit of lagers, and I brew a helles and a std. German pils that have identical grain bills, and nearly identical hopping. I mash them differently to get a fuller bodied helles and a crisp pils.

Any beer can be step mashed. A step mash doesn't always mean a protein rest is done. I do an bunch of ales where I do the starch conversion at two temperatures. I'll do a step around 147, and then one around 160 F. The times vary depending on the FG I'm shooting for.

I do this because I like the results, it is fun to do, and it is very easy for me to do on my rig. It is certainly not needed though to make great beer.

 

[t_mightyzeus]

Will beer Smith calculate for decoction, different steeping at different temperatures?

 

[tennesseean_87]

Are all pilsener malt in need of protein rest, or just German? What about Belgian pilsener malt?

 

[pjj2ba]

Are all pilsener malt in need of protein rest, or just German? What about Belgian pilsener malt?

No malt "needs" a protein rest. On the other hand, one can do a protein rest with any base malt. People make great beer without one and people make great beer using one. It depends on your tastes. Me, I always do a protein rest with any pilsner malt heavy beer - regardless of the country of origin.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I read that it's not good to do one with malt that is fully-modified, because it can break down the proteins that give body and head. The Franco-Belges Pilsener I have is fully modified, so I don't plan to do one with it.

 

[pjj2ba]

I read that it's not good to do one with malt that is fully-modified, because it can break down the proteins that give body and head. The Franco-Belges Pilsener I have is fully modified, so I don't plan to do one with it.

This is not entirely accurate and the magic of the internet has been slowly but surely making this take on a life of it's own.

It is clear that today's malts do not need a protein rest. That does not however mean that one shouldn't do one if they wanted too.

Doing too long of a protein can lead to the loss of body and head - very true. What has happened though is that this statement has been re-interpreted to be that one should never do a protein rest with well-modified malts. This is clearly not the case - especially for pilsner malts which are typically higher in protein. There is still some tweaking that can be done. That is what I like to do. I'm trying to get as much out of the malt as I can.

Again, one doesn't need to do a protein rest. It is very easy for me with my system to do them. If it would be a pain with your system, then I would skip it.

I love FB pilsner malt, and always use a protein rest. My lagers and Belgian beers are full bodied with thick rocky heads.

 

[tennesseean_87]

So how long of a reset would you do for a pilsener with the FB malt? What temp? I'm doing something like a clone of SA Noble pils (which is mostly 2row, not pils), so I probably won't mess with it, since FB is well-modified (though high-protein) and it's not the only base malt. I went with the Belgian malt because I want to brew a lot of those this summer, so what would you recommend for DSAs, saisons, or blonde ales?

In the little bit of reading I've done, there is apparently a big difference in the German pils and FB pils. It seems the German maltsters sell much less modified malt that would benefit more from a protein rest, but that the Belgian stuff is closer to our North American well-modified malt. Does that seem correct?

 

[pjj2ba]

I use the FB pilsner malt for my Belgian beers (Saison, B-IPA and Dark strong) and I also use it for my Czech pilsner. I've been playing with some Canada Malting pilsner malt and really like it and use it in my American lagers and my various German lagers as well.

My protein rest is typically 20 min at 122 F.

I have read that about the various pilsner malts. I generally think of them all being relatively similar - unless it specifically says it is less modified. There are a couple like that out there