When to add hops to the boil

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

My normal style of beer is a pale bitter around 3.8% ABV, single hopped.

For a 25 litre brew I add 20gms for 60 minutes, 20 gm for 20 minutes, 20 gm for 10 minutes, 20 gm for 5 minutes and 20 gm for 2 minutes.

The bitterness is fine but the flavour and aroma are in my opinion lacking.
normal hop used is cascade.

I wondered if 20 gms for 60 minutes and 80 gms for 20 minutes would be better?

 

[jjw5015]

what about a whirlpool addition and/or dryhopping?

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

I transfer straight from primary into bottles after 4 to 8 days.

Do I need to use more hops at 10,5,2 minutes ?

 

[tootal]

Our usual hop schedule is 60 min, 20 minute and flameout. According to some graphs I've read on line, you get the most flavor with a 20 addition and the most aroma at flame out. I must admit, we don't get a ton of aroma even with flame out additions so you may need to dry hop.

 

[cjgenever]

I find 15 min to be good for flavor. I'm sure 20 min is good as well. The thing is, it's hard to get the hop flavors to come through without aroma. Smell is important to taste. I really amp up my 5 and 1 min additions to increase aroma. I've been doing 60 min for bittering,15 min for flavor, 5 and 1 min for aroma, as well as some dry hop for most styles.

For my ipa I also add a 20 and 10 min addition. The key is to really go to town on the hops from five min on. It uses more hops, but it really brings out the aroma, which tricks the taste buds into tasting more flavor. I performed triple blind taste tests on myself and friends with and without a clothes pin on the nose and it really does work. Sip a commercial east coast ipa. Most of them are lacking in aroma. Now sip the same glass with a tea infuser full of aroma hops under your nose. There will be a difference in the flavor.

This is also used in food preparation. You use an herb to flavor the food, but add some fresh onto the hot plate/food right before serving. The diner will perceive a flavor profile from the volatile aromatics before the first bite.

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[bobtheUKbrewer2]

many thanks to all - will increase the hop additions at 5 and 2 minutes and experiment with dry hopping sterilised water to add to the ferment at day 3.

 

[RM-MN]

many thanks to all - will increase the hop additions at 5 and 2 minutes and experiment with dry hopping sterilised water to add to the ferment at day 3.

Wait until the fermentation is done, then just drop the dry hops into the fermenter, leave them for 3 to 7 days, then bottle. If you put them in while the beer is actively fermenting, much of your aroma will be carried away with the CO2. That might make the room smell good, but I thought you wanted the aroma in the beer.

 

[jjw5015]

Also, the hop oils are attracted to he yeast, so if you add hops during fermentation, the hop oils will drop with the yeast, giving you less aroma from the hops.


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[bobtheUKbrewer2]

If I wait until the fermentation is done, add hops and wait another 7 days, then bottle, surely the beer will be "flat".

 

[jjw5015]

If I wait until the fermentation is done, add hops and wait another 7 days, then bottle, surely the beer will be "flat".

You add sugar when you bottle to carbonate them. I suggest reading around on the forum for some instructions.

 

[cjgenever]

If I wait until the fermentation is done, add hops and wait another 7 days, then bottle, surely the beer will be "flat".

Read how to brew by John Palmer. The first edition is available online. Some of the info is dated, but the basics don't change. You definitely need to work on the basics. No offense, we all started with no idea how to brew

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[bobtheUKbrewer2]

jjw - I have been brewing for over 40 years. I was asking if there would be sufficient active yeast left by the time I bottled. I normally bottle in 4 to 6 days, but it would be up to 14 days with this approach.

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

cgjenever - no offense taken - I have been brewing for 40 years and hope to pass my expert exams within the next 30 years.....

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

jjw - I have been brewing for over 40 years. I was asking if there would be sufficient active yeast left by the time I bottled. I normally bottle in 4 to 6 days, but it would be up to 14 days with this approach.

There will be plenty if active yeast left to carbonate. I've had beer sit for a couple months before and haven't had any problems getting it to carb in the bottle without adding any additional yeast.

 

[jjw5015]

If I wait until the fermentation is done, add hops and wait another 7 days, then bottle, surely the beer will be "flat".

I apologize if I offended you. Just the way that was worded made me interpret it that way.


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[bobtheUKbrewer2]

jjw - I am not offended - I know that email is not as good as spoken word and is easily misinterpreted - this thread has opened my eyes with a presumably commercial brewer saying it is difficult to get "high" flavour and aroma.

I am going to steep 2 oz cascade in 2 litres of sterilised water for 48 hours, filter to remove hops and add to beer just an hour or so before I bottle, will report findings in a new thread.

 

[motleybrew]

I feel like a 5 and 2 minute addition are so close that what would be the difference? I dry hopped for the first time last batch and the results were stunning. I had not yet made a beer with such a beautifully strong hop aroma until I dry hopped. Typically, I do a FWH, then a 30 minute (or 15), and I plan to dry hop all of my beers from now on. That simple schedule achieves a very full hop profile.

 

[tootal]

In Greg Noonan's book he talks about making a "hop tea" and adding it to your beer. He recommended that hop tea is great for pilsners and other lager beers. For ales he recommended dry hopping. There are flavor differences between the two. Since you're doing a rather light ale the hop tea might work well for you. I would try it and see how you like it. If it's not what you were after then try dry hopping.

First Wort Hopping was mentioned above and I find that this does give you more hop flavor than regular flavor hops additions. That might be something you try in the future.

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

Not sure what FWH / first wort hopping is - unless it is the amount of hops in at beginning of boil. I made a kind of hop tea by infusing hops in water at 95 deg C and allowed to cool overnight - terrible flavour in finished beer.

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

any thoughts on dry hopping with whole hops or T90 pellets ?

 

[jjw5015]

Not sure what FWH / first wort hopping is - unless it is the amount of hops in at beginning of boil. I made a kind of hop tea by infusing hops in water at 95 deg C and allowed to cool overnight - terrible flavour in finished beer.

It's a technique to get flavor/aroma by adding hops between mash and boil. I've read they impart the same bitterness as a 20 min addition, but much more flavor/aroma


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[bobtheUKbrewer2]

so the hops go in at 75 deg C and the wort is brought to 100 deg C for 60 minutes - why is the flavour and aroma not boiled off, I wonder ?

 

[jjw5015]

so the hops go in at 75 deg C and the wort is brought to 100 deg C for 60 minutes - why is the flavour and aroma not boiled off, I wonder ?

Here's some good info on it

http://www.brew365.com/technique_firstworthopping.php


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[bobtheUKbrewer2]

many thanks jjw - I shall try it next brewday (monday) (with nelson sauvin hops)

 

[tootal]

I've done mash hops and FWH and they both gave us that long lasting hop flavor after you swallow. It's great on an IPA!

As far as dry hopping I prefer whole hops but you lose some beer and since you're using a carboy, I'm assuming, the pellets would be easier and still do a good job. I keg my beer so I just put whole hops and a bag and throw it in for a few days. Transforms the IPA!

 

[C-Rider]

If I wait until the fermentation is done, add hops and wait another 7 days, then bottle, surely the beer will be "flat".

That makes no sense. I dry hop for a week, then cold crash for a week and then bottle. Never had a flat beer.

 

[cjgenever]

jjw - I have been brewing for over 40 years. I was asking if there would be sufficient active yeast left by the time I bottled. I normally bottle in 4 to 6 days, but it would be up to 14 days with this approach.

I got you now. Sorry, I really thought you were a noob. I was trying to be helpful with the recommended reading.

Seriously, I've had beer in the fermenter(s) for months followed by a cold crash. They took longer than normal to carb, but they did. And they had the finest layer of yeast you've ever seen in a bottle primed beer ;-)

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[cjgenever]

That makes no sense. I dry hop for a week, then cold crash for a week and then bottle. Never had a flat beer.

I've been getting better results by crashing and racking, then dry hopping. All those oils stay in the beer rather than coating the yeast

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[cjgenever]

I feel like a 5 and 2 minute addition are so close that what would be the difference? I dry hopped for the first time last batch and the results were stunning. I had not yet made a beer with such a beautifully strong hop aroma until I dry hopped. Typically, I do a FWH, then a 30 minute (or 15), and I plan to dry hop all of my beers from now on. That simple schedule achieves a very full hop profile.

From twenty min on every addition will give a different result. Ie, @15 you will lose a lot of volitiles, but there will be compounds forming that need time and would be boiled off of the addition were @25. @5 the flavors and aromas still have a chance to incorporate. I do a 1 min addition because I find it incorporates better than@ flameout. Just using the motion of the boil to help mix the stuff in. It's more of a flameout addition.

When and how much hops all depends on what your going for. Ie, a common bitter might get a small 60 min and a small 15 min. That's all the hop it will ever see. A 90 min ipa clone gets a continuous feed of hops for 1.5 hrs. There are some Scottish ales that could be pulled off without hops. Just tell the consumer that you put hops in it and it will be on style.lol

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[cjgenever]

I thought we were talking boil hops. Of course dry hops are great for aroma. They tend to dissipate from the brew much quicker than late addition aromas, but are beautifully floral. A must in all of my apa,ipa, and anything else I can sneak it into

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