When/How to Add Honey

[DrumForHire]

I'm planning on brewing a Honey Rye Porter. I have my basic recipe set, but I've never brewed with honey before. My research has led to all sorts of options, including adding at/near flameout, adding to the cooled wort, adding in secondary, or adding to the keg. From what I understand, if the honey ferments it loses most of it's flavor. This is for a competition and the honey needs to be evident, so I'm considering adding honey malt to make it a little more obvious. Here are a couple of my questions:

• Some people have said that honey doesn't have to be boiled and should be completely safe to add to fermenting beer. Is this true?
• A post on the AHA website said to use mead/cider "backsweetening" techiques. What does this involve?
• Any advice to make sure that it's obvious that there is in fact honey in the beer?

Thanks for any help you can give!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

• some people have said that honey doesn't have to be boiled and should be completely safe to add to fermenting beer. Is this true?
• a post on the aha website said to use mead/cider "backsweetening" techiques. What does this involve?
• any advice to make sure that it's obvious that there is in fact honey in the beer?

thanks for any help you can give!

1. Honey contains a truckload of bacteria - they don't make the honey go off because the water content of honey is too low. If you add them to beer without pasteurising/boiling, you are introducing lots of unwanted bacteria. It might not hurt, but I wouldn't risk it.
2. Backsweetening involves adding honey/sugar to the glass when you pour the drink.
3. Honey will always ferment completely in beer (unless you pasteurise the beer) leaving a hint of flavour but no sweetness. I've used it a few times by bringing it to a simmer for a few minutes and adding it to the fermenter. You could also add it towards the end of the boil.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

One more thing you could try is using a low-attenuating yeast to leave behind some sugars. The honey will still ferment completely (because it's a simple sugar) but the residual malt sugar might help 'sweeten' the honey flavour.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Last time I used honey I heated to around ~90* so it was easier to pour and added after the beer was pretty much done fermenting. My (probably incorrect) assumptions were that the alcohol would help kill off any bacteria in the honey and I didn't want the honey to ferment out.

You could taste the honey in the finished product!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Last time I used honey I heated to around ~90* so it was easier to pour and added after the beer was pretty much done fermenting. My (probably incorrect) assumptions were that the alcohol would help kill off any bacteria in the honey and I didn't want the honey to ferment out.

You could taste the honey in the finished product!

The honey will completely ferment regardless of when you add it. The sugars in honey are simple sugars - they ferment completely, but the flavour compounds in the honey remain. Alcohol (and the low pH) will kill off most bacteria - you'd probably be safe adding after most of the ferment is complete without boiling but I personally wouldn't risk it.

 

[Lefou]

LOL

Pasteurized store bought honey is perfectly safe to add straight into your wort .... raw honey might be a different story. I've made still mead from off the shelf clover honey and water. The pH of honey and protein content will counteract most bacteria as long as it's stored properly.
Honey does three thing when it ferments It boosts sugar gravity, increases alcohol levels, and dries out your your wort. It's best added in beers that have been mashed at a higher temperature because it will have a thinning effect.
A lot of honey can stress the yeast, but wort should provide nutrients. One thing to remember, though, is that a bit much honey will require aging your beer longer.

 

[DrumForHire]

Thanks for the advice so far.

My main worry at this point is that honey may dry out the finished beer too much. I personally think many commercial porters are too thin-bodied. So, at this point I'm thinking of adding half a lb of honey and including half a lb of honey malt to keep the flavor. And I can mash at a higher temperature to counteract some of the drying effects of the honey.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

LOL

Pasteurized store bought honey is perfectly safe to add straight into your wort .... raw honey might be a different story.

Please don't LOL at other people's advice. It's offensive.

Most honey sold around the world (including nearly all honey in Australia) is NOT pasteurised. It might be different in the USA.

 

[juskojj]

i didn't even think of bacteria being in honey, i found a recipe for a honey ale that they say add the honey to the primary around the 3 day mark, after reading this thread i may heat up the honey to pasteurize it before adding it

 

[BrewKaiser]

I made an Imp Oatmeal Stout for local homebrew competition last year that used 2-3/4 lbs of Valencia orange blossom honey from an orchard in SoCA. For a 5.5 Gal batch with 1.080 OG using WLP001, the beer finished at 1.018 with very little "honey" essence. I also primed with same honey (made 50/50 simple syrup solution by adding to boiling water and then cutting the heat). I intentionally added more honey than what beersmith calculated for my priming solution and bottled beers were slightly under-carbed.

Granted, the stout had a lot of other flavors going on, but fermentable sugars are hard to predict and the "honey-like" aromas just didn't translate well in the finished product. I contemplated using Honey malt as well as I've used that in the past and it little certainly imbues the honey-like essence.

 

[Steveruch]

i didn't even think of bacteria being in honey, i found a recipe for a honey ale that they say add the honey to the primary around the 3 day mark, after reading this thread i may heat up the honey to pasteurize it before adding it

There are mead makers who simply mix the honey with water that's just a little warm to help dissolve the honey and pitch yeast with good results.
I've never had any issues with adding honey straight into a beer.

 

[MaplePaddle]

I'm currently working on a recipe using unpasteurized honey. In an attempt to retain the delicate flavours I've decided to dilute the honey with sterile water, place covered in an oven for 30 min @ 150F, let cool and add to primary about 48 hours into fermentation.

See what happens.

 

[xben]

I used unpasteurised honey several times after primary was done.. I always read honey is antibacterial and even 10000 year's old honey would still be good to eat.

I remember an article where scientists did an experiment mixing different sweet sources (including honey) with different bacteria. Every single sample turned highly infected, excluding the honey, which stayed perfectly clean!

Cheers!

 

[PaulR]

If I read the OP correctly, you are looking to keg this beer? If that is so, you could simply do the backsweetening to the keg and force carb. You could use the honey malt in your mash, then ferment, and once clear add some sulfite to keep fermentation from starting up again. Pasteurize your honey if you want, even though I don't know that it is necessary, then mix it with some water to keep it from sinking to the bottom of the keg and combine with your beer in the keg. Force carb and you should be good to go. Then you don't lose any of the honey flavors to fermentation.

 

[juskojj]

There are mead makers who simply mix the honey with water that's just a little warm to help dissolve the honey and pitch yeast with good results.
I've never had any issues with adding honey straight into a beer.

excellent! i've done one mead that way but never honey into beer so i wasn't sure if anything was different..... honey into the fermentor tonight!

 

[honeycon]

My experience with honey is as a beekeeper and mead maker mostly. Your main concern with unpasteurized honey is from wild yeast not bacteria. If you add honey to hot wort that is at 180 degrees or higher, no issues. That is the same temp as used to flash pasteurize. No need to boil.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

If I read the OP correctly, you are looking to keg this beer?

Also to enter some in a competition....potential bottle bombs.

 

[PaulR]

Not if he bottles from the keg after using the sulfite. Shouldn't be any bottle bomb possibilities using that process

 

[DrumForHire]

If I read the OP correctly, you are looking to keg this beer?

Yes, I usually keg then use Blichmann beer gun for bottles.

 

[alexnova]

The National Honey Board did some experiments on honey in a blonde ale and presented their findings at last year's HomebrewCon. They noted only slight changes when added at various times during fermentation. Honey was more noticeable when it was added at packaging.

 

[alexnova]

I'm currently working on a recipe using unpasteurized honey. In an attempt to retain the delicate flavours I've decided to dilute the honey with sterile water, place covered in an oven for 30 min @ 150F, let cool and add to primary about 48 hours into fermentation.

See what happens.

Good idea. Just remember you'll need to keep the mixture at 150F for 30 minutes. It'll take a lot longer if you put it into a 150F oven.

 

[troglodytes]

I have always used various local honeys and pitched into primary just as fermentation is stating to slow (usually day 3-4). I have never boiled or pasteurized. I too have heard that despite honey having wild yeast and other microbes it also has hops like antibacterial properties and does not require heating.

I only bottle and have never had a honey beer develop an infection.

 

[maxxxx]

If the honey is pasteurized then u can add it whenever u feel like. However if it's fresh add it @ flameout/whirlpool. It will retain much of its flavor and the hot wort will sanitize it without boiling it (boiling it will destroy its flavor).
I've been making a Belgian Golden Strong with honey for about 15 years and this is the technique that I've come to find is the best.
Cheers.

 

[Apimyces]

Depends on what you like. For a bold "honey" flavor, you'll need to back-sweeten after primary fermentation, possibly using it as primer. Personally, I hate this technique, I find it gross. The product is usually too sweet, the flavors aren't balanced. But hey, seems like all of the "honey" beers and spirits I've tasted, except one, did this.

I brew a lot with honey, but I don't like the taste of unfermented honey in my brews.

 

[Apimyces]

Good idea. Just remember you'll need to keep the mixture at 150F for 30 minutes. It'll take a lot longer if you put it into a 150F oven.

Keep in mind that 150F for 30 minutes will give you pasteurized honey. It's pretty much the exact definition of pasteurization in honey. So you may as well just go and buy pasteurized honey, if you are going to do this. (whether this is "true" pasteurization or not, I won't get into, but that's the industry standard as far as honey is concerned)

 

[Apimyces]

There are mead makers who simply mix the honey with water that's just a little warm to help dissolve the honey and pitch yeast with good results.
I've never had any issues with adding honey straight into a beer.

Indeed. Brewing is a lot about making sure your "good" micro-organisms out-compete your "bad" ones. Complete sterilization facilitates this competition, but is not required. Proper sanitation already goes a long way. Are there micro-organisms in honey? Yes, a little. But you are pitching in way, way more.

I used unpasteurised honey several times after primary was done.. I always read honey is antibacterial and even 10000 year's old honey would still be good to eat.

I remember an article where scientists did an experiment mixing different sweet sources (including honey) with different bacteria. Every single sample turned highly infected, excluding the honey, which stayed perfectly clean!

Cheers!

Thousand year old honey is fabrication. They found jars of honey from tombs, there are no reliable report that they actually ate it. Actually I think it was jars of mead. Honey ages and degrades, and will produce HMFs. All foods degrade unless sealed in a vacuum with zero humidity, zero oxygen, and kept in liquid nitrogen, and even then. "X is the only food that never spoils!" is said about many foods that do, in fact, spoil. That said, honey has a long shelf life if kept in the dark at room temperatures or lower.

As for bacteria, honey has high osmotic pressure, hydrogen peroxide, low pH, and various essential oils, which helps it keep from spoiling. Add just a few degrees' worth of humidity, and it becomes prone to spoilage. Don't count on those properties to have any effect at must dilutions.

My experience with honey is as a beekeeper and mead maker mostly. Your main concern with unpasteurized honey is from wild yeast not bacteria. If you add honey to hot wort that is at 180 degrees or higher, no issues. That is the same temp as used to flash pasteurize. No need to boil.

Same. Though some trials have shown greater appreciation for mead done with boiled mash, the difference is small and is a matter of taste. I don't boil, I don't even heat, and I use my own raw honey.

 

[GingerBeardBrewing]

I have played around with different methods myself, but not in darker beers. It's hard enough to give the lasting honey taste in pale ales and wheat beers. Honey naturally contains hydrogen peroxide, and never expires, so unless you have contaminated it it should be fairly clean. I have gone as far as mixing 1 pound of honey with water to match my original gravity, and added that to high Krausen in primary. Didn't make much difference. I agree with the other Brewers comments on it's drying effect, and concur with using a lower attenuating yeast strain.

My final formula for getting the honey flavor to hang around, and still have a slightly sweet beer is: mash base malts at 140F for 15 minutes, heat to 160F, add specialty grains and hold there for 45 minutes. Do a 90 minute boil. Begin chilling the wort and add all your honey at 170F. Stir it in and continue chilling. That kills anything possibly living in there, and prevents boiling off all the honey goodness.

For extra sweetness, use a low 70% attenuation rating yeast, or add some lactose. Don't forget to calculate for a higher FG if you have a target ABV.

Cheers!

 

[planker101]

Not a scientific experiment, however, I was given 3 barrels (55 gallon drums) of honey that are over 20 years old. The barrels are food grade and were sealed during their storage. Kept in an insulated, but not climate controlled warehouse in the central valley.
Still taste like honey.
I have been using it in mead and beer without any attempt to disinfect/pasturize and have not had the slightest hint of infection. And I mean NO attempt to sanitize, I'm literally just adding it to tap water.

Like I said, not scientific, or proof of anything. Just my own experience. However, I imagine you will not find many better examples of throwing caution to the wind and using honey that has a higher likelyhood of infection or spoilage and I have still have ZERO contamination issues (I do sanitize my fermentation vessels).

 

[wstcstnative]

I made a honey porter this past winter (5 gal + 1lb honey) and added the honey at the beginning of the boil. I won't do that again - when I make it next time I'll add with maybe 5-10 mins left in the boil. I didn't get much of a honey flavor at all.

 

[jimdk27]

I have had honey flavor come through well when adding ti as the priming sugar or to the keg. I add it at the end of the boil too, but I assume most of that flavor is eaten up by the yeast.

Good luck.

 

[Steveruch]

It also depends on which honey you use: buckwheat honey is WAY different from clover honey.

 

[Apimyces]

Not a scientific experiment, however, I was given 3 barrels (55 gallon drums) of honey that are over 20 years old. The barrels are food grade and were sealed during their storage. Kept in an insulated, but not climate controlled warehouse in the central valley.
Still taste like honey.
I have been using it in mead and beer without any attempt to disinfect/pasturize and have not had the slightest hint of infection. And I mean NO attempt to sanitize, I'm literally just adding it to tap water.

Like I said, not scientific, or proof of anything. Just my own experience. However, I imagine you will not find many better examples of throwing caution to the wind and using honey that has a higher likelyhood of infection or spoilage and I have still have ZERO contamination issues (I do sanitize my fermentation vessels).

Honey degradation is not purely about spoilage by micro-organisms, which are a threat if the honey is exposed to moisture. Heat and sunlight are the main sources of HMF production, and will turn a honey darker and darker. It can become improper to consumer without looking "funny".

I made a honey porter this past winter (5 gal + 1lb honey) and added the honey at the beginning of the boil. I won't do that again - when I make it next time I'll add with maybe 5-10 mins left in the boil. I didn't get much of a honey flavor at all.

Fermentation greatly influences the taste of the ingredients, like honey in mead and grapes in wine. If you want raw honey flavor, then it must be added post-fermentation. While if you want more mead-y fermented honey flavors, it must be put earlier.