Wheat to add head retention
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waskelton4
Well-Known Member
is the haze in wheat beer from the wheat or the low floccuation of the hefeweizen yeast that is generally used?
I'm not sure.. just asking..
I did however brew a hefe as my first brew.. it was 100% Wheat DME and used a white labs hefe yeast..
it's clear in the bottle unless i swrill the sedement up at the end of the pour..
i'd like to know the answer too..
ws
I'm not sure.. just asking..
I did however brew a hefe as my first brew.. it was 100% Wheat DME and used a white labs hefe yeast..
it's clear in the bottle unless i swrill the sedement up at the end of the pour..
i'd like to know the answer too..
ws
waskelton4
Well-Known Member
It very well may.. i don't know..
I was just always under the impression that the suspended yeast was what made the beer cloudy..
but for the record.. i could very well not know what in the world i'm talking about..
somebody bail me out here
ws
I was just always under the impression that the suspended yeast was what made the beer cloudy..
but for the record.. i could very well not know what in the world i'm talking about..
somebody bail me out here
ws
you can't go wrong with More Cowbell!!
jeffg
Well-Known Member
I typically add a 1/3 to 1/2 lb of wheat to my APAs for head retention, and have added a lb. of wheat to a few different recipes without any haze issues. I'd say go for it.
Glibbidy
Well-Known Member
5% of the total grist is not going to make your beer cloudy. You could probably get away with using up to 10% without it affecting the clarity of your beer. You may be able to go higher. From my personal experience, the most I have used in a non-wheat specific beer is 10% in a Porter. Typically I have found anything in the 3-6% range works is enough.
You could also add more cowbell too, that might help.
You could also add more cowbell too, that might help.
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
There's an article on the BYO website that gives a lot of good tips for head retention, none of which involve adjuncts. Perhaps someone can find it (byo is filtered here at work ). I'm not saying adjuncts won't work, I suppose based on empirical evidence they definitely do, but the amount of protein in malted wheat is only about 10% more than in malted barley, so it's not exactly a silver bullet.
I've used it in APA's and like it and will use it again, but if I had a grist I was really happy with I wouldn't add an adjunct in just for head retention.
). I'm not saying adjuncts won't work, I suppose based on empirical evidence they definitely do, but the amount of protein in malted wheat is only about 10% more than in malted barley, so it's not exactly a silver bullet.I've used it in APA's and like it and will use it again, but if I had a grist I was really happy with I wouldn't add an adjunct in just for head retention.
Baron von BeeGee said:
Interesting. I've added wheat in as an adjunct in EVERY single one of my AG beers, looking for head retention and I've always been slightly disappointed with it. Good info BeeGee. I'm going to go look for that BYO article.
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
It was in a BYO issue from this year...I'm pretty sure it was online, as well, but I'm not positive.
Edit...what the hell, I actually found it using Google's cache:
http://byo.com/departments/1410.html
Edit...what the hell, I actually found it using Google's cache:
http://byo.com/departments/1410.html
Baron von BeeGee said:
WOW...damn good info in there. Bad fermentations are the key culprit to headless beers. Hmmmm.....
Normally I wouldn't think there is a need for adding wheat, but given the amount of sugar in a Belgian Golden Strong Ale, I figure it might help. I skimmed BYO, the few articles I saw suggested it could help. (I have malted wheat vs. unmalted however.)
He seems to contradict on wheat a bit in his parenthesis:
My experience has been that, if you are having problems with forming a head, adding wheat malt doesn’t help. (On the other hand, if you are already getting decent foam, adding wheat can increase the amount and longevity of foam.) I’ve also noticed that many “low protein” beers form perfectly nice heads, counter to the idea that you need a lot of protein in your grain bill to form good beer foam.
Or perhaps he meant if you have no head (because of bad practices) adding wheat won't compensate for this. I always heard adding wheat "increases head retention" and the reason that I add it. Isn't that what he said here?
My experience has been that, if you are having problems with forming a head, adding wheat malt doesn’t help. (On the other hand, if you are already getting decent foam, adding wheat can increase the amount and longevity of foam.) I’ve also noticed that many “low protein” beers form perfectly nice heads, counter to the idea that you need a lot of protein in your grain bill to form good beer foam.
Or perhaps he meant if you have no head (because of bad practices) adding wheat won't compensate for this. I always heard adding wheat "increases head retention" and the reason that I add it. Isn't that what he said here?
mysterio
Well-Known Member
The article lost me at this point:
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
dB, I think what he's saying is that if you don't have good head generation (however briefly), then wheat won't help. However, if you get copious head (har har) on your beer but it doesn't last long, then wheat may help.
Frankly, I don't notice any better head formation on my wheat beers with 60% wheat in the grist than I do on many of my 100% barley beers. Sometimes my beers have good head, sometimes they don't...I don't think it's related to wheat or adjuncts in my case, just procedures. I even brewed a chocolate stout with 3.5oz of dark chocolate in it (not extract...chocolate!) which I was told would absolutely destroy the head...it foamed up and had head like a champ. My latest Hefeweizen, while quite delicious IMO, has somewhat dissapointing head characteristics for a beer with 50% wheat in the grist.
Frankly, I don't notice any better head formation on my wheat beers with 60% wheat in the grist than I do on many of my 100% barley beers. Sometimes my beers have good head, sometimes they don't...I don't think it's related to wheat or adjuncts in my case, just procedures. I even brewed a chocolate stout with 3.5oz of dark chocolate in it (not extract...chocolate!) which I was told would absolutely destroy the head...it foamed up and had head like a champ. My latest Hefeweizen, while quite delicious IMO, has somewhat dissapointing head characteristics for a beer with 50% wheat in the grist.
Honestly the biggest head retention problems for most brewers involves the serving vessel. If that thing isn't absolutely 100% free of detergent residue and oils, you won't have head retention at all.
Of course the brewing process is important.
I've always marveled at the brewers who can get away with not using cara-pils or clarifiers and stuff like that and have sufficient bodied, clear beers. Those are the things I'd like to master, as well as the obvious, the taste.
Of course the brewing process is important.
I've always marveled at the brewers who can get away with not using cara-pils or clarifiers and stuff like that and have sufficient bodied, clear beers. Those are the things I'd like to master, as well as the obvious, the taste.
I always get nice head & retention from my IPA and Porter and always attributed it to the .5 wheat. I might give the IPA a test next time around and not add it. If it doesn't change anything then heck, I'll be saving $.80 a batch .
In retrospect, my snpa clone on tap has head that won't quit (no wheat). Takes forever to get a full pour from the tap if it's the 1st of the day. Desert thinks to self...
& retention from my IPA and Porter and always attributed it to the .5 wheat. I might give the IPA a test next time around and not add it. If it doesn't change anything then heck, I'll be saving $.80 a batch .In retrospect, my snpa clone on tap has head that won't quit (no wheat). Takes forever to get a full pour from the tap if it's the 1st of the day. Desert thinks to self...
Logbuyercab
Member
Use crystal Malt to Adds good hed retention and a slight caramelcolor and flavor.
For light beers use crystal 10 to Crystal 40 for those ambers or IPA use crystal 60 to crystal 120
Use 1/2 LBS to 1 LBS per 5 gal batch I have even gone higher in quanity. Wont cloud your beer
For light beers use crystal 10 to Crystal 40 for those ambers or IPA use crystal 60 to crystal 120
Use 1/2 LBS to 1 LBS per 5 gal batch I have even gone higher in quanity. Wont cloud your beer
I had originally planned on using 1/2 lb of Crytal 10L, but since I had a 1/2 lb of Munich left from a prior batch I decided to use that instead (for more malt/caramel character). One BYO article suggested that Belgian Golden Strong Ales have copious amounts of foam, so I'm probably ok. The 1/2 lb of wheat couldn't hurt.
MattMacLeod
Member
What's your recipe? Maybe there's something else in there that will look after the head for you. Many beers that have great heads don't add specific ingredients to achieve that.
hungupdown
Well-Known Member
Though question is probably past it's sell date:
According to Crisp Malt article: Torrefied vs Malted wheat
"Torrefied wheat has higher molecular proteins compared to malted wheat. These bigger proteins are great for an initial haze, but will soon drop out of the liquid as they don’t tend to float for very long. The wheat malt will have smaller proteins that have been broken down and will be much better for a permanent haze".
So if you can wait for haze to settle, use torrified.
You want to know something weird... I find I get better head retention when I supplement my normal all-grain brew by substituting in a pound of the base malt with pilsner DME instead. I might be nuts but I've done this for several batches where I wanted guaranteed good head and it seems to help. And it shouldn't end up hazy either.
But of course, this is a cheater method, and there's probably other ways that make more sense to try. Also I figure a half pound of wheat malt shouldn't induce all that much haze anyway, and might indeed be the less crazy way to go.
But of course, this is a cheater method, and there's probably other ways that make more sense to try. Also I figure a half pound of wheat malt shouldn't induce all that much haze anyway, and might indeed be the less crazy way to go.
Head retention is as much about process as ingredients. My golden strong has excellent head retention as you can see (this was poured two nights ago from my keg of the current batch). This is a 100% pale barley beer. There is no wheat, nor any carapils/carafoam, or any crystal malts of any kind. This is a single infusion + mashout beer fermented with WB-06 which is at the least a very close relative of Duvel WLP570/WY1388 if not the same strain.
Historically before I went LODO, I was able to achieve similar results by adding a pound of wheat + a pound of carapils to my recipes. The combination of the two seemed to be important.
Historically before I went LODO, I was able to achieve similar results by adding a pound of wheat + a pound of carapils to my recipes. The combination of the two seemed to be important.
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In real life these don't actually improve head retention at all. They do not function as advertised.
https://scottjanish.com/dextrins-and-mouthfeel/
That's a very nice looking beer, but I assume you don't mean that you poured it two nights ago and took the photo this afternoon.
So not to be overly nitpicky or anything, but to judge head retention we do kinda need to know how long it was between pouring and snapping the pic.Halfakneecap
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I think a 72c rest gives great lacing.
But if not, malted spelt is even better than wheat. My yearly Spelt Saison needs a BIG glass for the rocky head.
But if not, malted spelt is even better than wheat. My yearly Spelt Saison needs a BIG glass for the rocky head.
That's a very nice looking beer, but I assume you don't mean that you poured it two nights ago and took the photo this afternoon.
It was taken approximately 2-3 minutes after pouring. I poured it, went to the bathroom, came back, and took the picture because I thought it looked nice and I was impressed that the head was still sitting on top just like the real Duvel. It also leaves lacing on the glass which I didn't take a picture of. I think there is something about their yeast strain that promotes the huge head, head retention, and lacing, because that keg is only on about 20 psi @ 45°F and real Duvel is carbonated to around 4.0 volumes of CO2. I have lots of other beers on tap with far less impressive head retention brewed with the same low oxygen brewing practices: Pre-boiling water prior to mashing, hot side antioxidant ascorbic acid added just prior to mashing, closed transfer after fermentation, keg refermentation. Nothing fancy or revolutionary.
I read that article and came back thinking using carapils is just wasting mash tun space. I use carapils all the time thinking it's improving head retention. Am I wrong to think it's a useless grain now?
I've never managed to get very good head retention, but lots of my beers do leave impressive lacing.
I’ve always used about 1/4 lb of white wheat malt in recipes for head retention but I honestly don’t know if it is doing the job or something else is…
Surprised chit malt hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet
Cheers!
Cheers!
