wheat, rye and honey in saison, waste of honey?

[Microscopist]

I'm getting a kick out of brewing saisons at the moment and I've got a load of new malts arrived to play with.

I've a base recipe that I'm happy with - OG 1040, 50:50 pilsner and pale wheat malt with herkules hops and I'm wondering about putting in about 10-20% pale rye malt in the next batch plus 2lb of honey ( in 15l ) at flame out.

Would the honey be lost in the rye flavours?

I've also munich malt to play with but figured I don't want the stronger maltiness of that coming into play.

 

[Microscopist]

1.2kg lager malt
500g wheat malt
300g pale rye malt
Herkules 15g 90min
Herkules 6g 0min
900g local honey 0min
Og 1068

I was a little worried the saison yeast would struggle in that gravity but it's bubbling this morning

 

[LesIsMore]

What type of yeast did you use? The gravity shouldn't be an issue especially if it was liquid yeast and you made a starter. I don't have much experience with honey, but I'd be worried about losing the aroma during fermentation and probably would have added it towards the end of fermentation.

 

[Microscopist]

The yeast was originally nicked out of a bottle of Strawman Saison I've kept on the go for a few months. I grow it up overnight in pale extract SG 1035 about 150ml.

 

[Microscopist]

1010 this evening, it's kicked off a lot of sulphur - bathroom smells like it's just been used. Still a lot of foam and a layer of yeast on top. Flavour good - a biting bitterness and dry edge that I'd expect from this yeast with a pungent medicinal honey aftertaste, could be one of my best brews yet.dunno what the rye has added but I'm guessing its added to that dry bite.

If it means anything to anyone the honey was field bean and bramble.

Wondering about doing pure honey and hops with this yeast.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Have you considered using Honey Malt? It will be difficult to fine tune your OG prior to brewing as sugar content of honey can vary and not all of the sugars are fermentable.

I accidentally used 1lb of honey malt instead of 1/4lb in a Kolsch. While not overpowering, it definitely has honey notes and a sweetness. I only realized my mistake when my gravity readings were high. After adjusting the recipe in BS with 1lb the numbers all came together.

Despite the mistake, I rather liked the result.

It's amazing how much like honey the honey malt smells.

 

[Arrheinous]

Honey malt is great stuff!

If OP wants a bit more honey flavor then maybe do a minimash or extraction of honey malt, concentrate it, and then add to the fermenter?

 

[Microscopist]

I've not found honey malt over here but I'll have a look for it.

My hydrometer's broke so I can't take a reading but it's free of bubbles and partly cleared so it'll go in the secondary tomorrow. Initial taste is OK, the high strength hinders it a little but the aftertaste is amazing- I think with ageing it'll be a good beer.

 

[The10mmKid]

I've had very good results adding a honey solution right after the peak of fermentation (like day three or four).

Boil a cup of water to dilute the honey. Gently stirred into the carboy. the yeast will finish mixing it.

Oh, you are required to register your broken hydrometer.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/official-broken-hydrometer-count-148083/

It's the rules man! :rockin:

'da Kid

 

[Calichusetts]

Honey is very delicate. They work best in clean wheat beers and usually get lost in the rest. A nice strategy is to use honey throughout the brew process...some at the end of the boil, some at the end of fermentation, some in a secondary and use it to prime. This is your only hope to get it with the rye and saison yeast

 

[Microscopist]

Kegged it today after getting a new hydrometer- 1002, almost cleared and in the extra six days in the primary it's mellowed and come into balance. The honey flavour is quite pronounced. I'll be priming with a little honey just to get some gas production as it matures and probably bottle in six weeks or so.