Wheat questions

[snottywong]

I recently brewed a Saison which turned out terrific, I've got some of the same yeast left over so I wanted to try a little twist on the same recipe by adding a lot more wheat to the grain bill. My goal is to make it the beer a little drier, crisper, and maybe even a little bit cloudy.

I'm thinking of using a bit of flaked wheat and considerably more malted wheat, combined they would be roughly 50% of the grain bill (give or take 10%). I've never done a mash with this much wheat, and have a few questions:

1. Any general comments on the percentage of flaked wheat, malted wheat, and malted barley, and how that will affect the beer?

2. I've been doing single infusion mashes so far, do I need to think about a 2-step infusion for any reason? If so, which rest should I be shooting for, the protein rest? Should I only do a protein rest with just the flaked wheat, or should it be with all the grain added?

3. I'm unsure about the diastatic enzyme content of flaked wheat and malted wheat. Should I be matching the weight of the wheat with 2-row? 6-row? Or do I need more barley than wheat?

Thanks!

 

[snottywong]

Any comments? Buying grains tomorrow... Thanks in advance.

 

[milldoggy]

Think a single infusion with Flaked wheat is fine, probably keep is below 20% of your grain bill. You could do a step at 122, but probably not required. I think I read that some people do a mid 140s and a mid 150s for a saison. Just guessing. My new brew will be my first saison.

 

[snottywong]

Thanks for the info. Do you normally mill the flaked wheat like everything else or do you mash it whole?

 

[ThePearsonFam]

From How to Brew:

Flaked Wheat Unmalted wheat is a common ingredient in wheat beers, including: American Wheat, Bavarian Weisse, and is essential to Belgian Lambic and Wit. It adds starch haze and high levels of protein. Flaked wheat adds more wheat flavor "sharpness" than malted wheat. Use 0.5-2 lb. per 5 gal batch. Must be mashed with base malt.

and...

The other enzymes in this temperature regime are the beta-glucanases/cytases - part of the cellulose enzyme family, and are used to break up the beta glucans in (un)malted wheat, rye, oatmeal and unmalted barley. These glucan hemi-celluloses (i.e. brambles) are responsible for the gumminess of dough and if not broken down will cause the mash to turn into a solid loaf ready for baking. Fortunately, the optimum temperature range for the beta glucanase enzyme is below that for the proteolytics. This allows the brewer to rest the mash at 98 -113°F for 20 minutes to break down the gums without affecting the proteins responsible for head retention and body. The use of this rest is only necessary for brewers incorporating a large amount (>25%) of unmalted or flaked wheat, rye or oatmeal in the mash. Sticky mashes and lauters from lesser amounts can usually be handled by increasing the temperature at lautering time (Mashout). See Chapter 17 - "Getting the Wort Out - Lautering" for further discussion.

1) percentages... I'm still experimenting to see what I like. I make my hefes with 50/50 pilsner and malted wheat, but I haven't done enough experiements with flaked wheat to speak intelligently about quantities.

2) Your choice based on quantity and style issues. Read above to see the recommendations.

3) So, diastatic power of anything that is unmalted is 0, so the flaked wheat must be mashed with your base malt to get it to convert.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

oh... and the flaked wheat does not need to be milled.

 

[Dr Malt]

My experience related to your questions is as follows:

1. Wheat beers in my experience run in the range of 40/60 and 50/50 malted wheat to malted barley. You can go higher in malted wheat, but at these ratios, the flavor and appearance are such that it in representative of a wheat beer. Higher wheat content results in the potential for filtration problems unless you add rice hulls. Flaked wheat is unmalted as mentioned here by others, so the inclusion range should be 15% or less. You are adding the flaked wheat (or oats) to increase haze so use just enough.
2. A protein rest is not needed and if you want to maximize the haze, it is not recommended.
3. Malted wheat has a DP similar to the of malted barley. So it has the enzymatic ability to breakdown starch to fermentable sugars. Flaked wheat is not malted so it has no DP. Why you want to limit the malted wheat and mix in barley malt is the need for the husk material for good lautering.

I hope this helps.

Dr Malt

 

[snottywong]

Awesome, thanks ThePearsonFam and Dr Malt, that was exactly the info I was looking for. Going to put my recipe together and get ingredients today, and hopefully brew tomorrow. I'll post the recipe later for posterity.

 

[snottywong]

Here's what I'm going to go with, I'll try to remember to let you know how it turned out in a month or two.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.46 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.064 SG
Estimated Color: 7.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 35.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type %/IBU
4.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 36.0 %
4.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 32.0 %
1.50 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 12.0 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 8.0 %
0.50 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 4.0 %
1.00 oz Tettnang [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 18.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Tettnang [5.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 11.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Saaz [3.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 3.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Saaz [3.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 2.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice -
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice -
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining -
1.00 lb Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 8.0 % (Corn sugar goes in the primary fermenter after krausen)
5.00 gal Portland OR Water -
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [150.0 Yeast -


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 12.50 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Step Add 20.13 qt of water at 161.4 F 147.0 F 60 min


Sparge: Batch sparge with 2.35 gal water at 168.0 F

 

[ThePearsonFam]

looks good. may want to consider some rice hulls to prevent a stuck sparge but that's up to you.

 

[bearsphan]

How did your lautering go?

 

[snottywong]

Pretty well. Next time I'll add some rice hulls, because it got stuck at one point. But, a quick stir got it going again. I plan on bottling it in a few days, so I'll let you know how it came out in a few weeks.