Wheat Malt - ideal crush?

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Since wheat malt is huskless what is the ideal crush?

Should it just be gently cracked or should it be pulverized?

If pulverized the assumption would be to add rice hulls or barely that still has husks well intact along with the wheat

 

[day_trippr]

I like to "crumble" - not pulverize - wheat malt so I run it through a tight (~0.019") gap. The crumbs are roughly the same size as the barley malt (which runs through a different mill with a gap closer to 0.030"). But I do use a half pound of rice hulls as well (10 gallon batches) just to ensure a smooth brew day...

Cheers!

 

[ninkwood]

Ive been having a heck of a time figuring out my wheat malt crush. On my most recent attempt, I still ended up with a stuck mash and I milled the wheat at 0.041"(!) with a brew bag. I use a fluted Millmaster mill running it at around 150 RPM with a drill. The barley was crushed at 0.049". Picture below includes both malts (~65% Weyermann pale wheat, the rest pilsner malt). I think I'm still getting too much flour.

 

[day_trippr]

That crush would actually be on the coarse side at Casa Trippr, but I'm not dealing with a mesh bag.
I do wonder if that's what you're running into but I have no experience with such things...

 

[Agent]

Ive been having a heck of a time figuring out my wheat malt crush. On my most recent attempt, I still ended up with a stuck mash and I milled the wheat at 0.041"(!) with a brew bag. I use a fluted Millmaster mill running it at around 150 RPM with a drill. The barley was crushed at 0.049". Picture below includes both malts (~65% Weyermann pale wheat, the rest pilsner malt). I think I'm still getting too much flour.

View attachment 866214

I agree with @day_trippr that it's a fairly coarse crush.

How are you on your water adjustments? I personally find that when I miss the mark on pH that it's very hard to drain.

This weekend, I ground with a Corona mill to 30%+ flour and can drain an 8lb grain bill with 50% rice to a ball slightly bigger than my fist.

 

[ninkwood]

That crush would actually be on the coarse side at Casa Trippr, but I'm not dealing with a mesh bag.
I do wonder if that's what you're running into but I have no experience with such things...

I had attempted the same beer the weekend prior and milled the barley to 0.035" and the wheat to 0.026" but it was so bad I had to dump the batch. Both brews were done on a brewzilla and were my first brews on this system so lots of potential causes...

On my more familiar 3vHERMs, I've not had a batch stick milling around 0.035-0.040 with 100% barley. But wheat has ALWAYS caused issues for me when > about 15%.

How are you on your water adjustments? I personally find that when I miss the mark on pH that it's very hard to drain.

pH was right where I wanted it at 5.6 during the Mash. Aimed high as this is the guidance I've seen for German Hefeweizens. Conversion was good as well inspite of the course grind but this is because I did a couple decoctions. I didn't want to rely on the built in RIMs in case I had the same issue as last weekend...

I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand why I can't get wheat to flow properly. At this point I'm blaming it on the flour but given this

This weekend, I ground with a Corona mill to 30%+ flour and can drain an 8lb grain bill with 50% rice to a ball slightly bigger than my fist.

That can't be the only factor at play.

I think I'll just keep trying and eventually, hopefully, I'll figure it out

 

[doug293cz]

I had attempted the same beer the weekend prior and milled the barley to 0.035" and the wheat to 0.026" but it was so bad I had to dump the batch. Both brews were done on a brewzilla and were my first brews on this system so lots of potential causes...

On my more familiar 3vHERMs, I've not had a batch stick milling around 0.035-0.040 with 100% barley. But wheat has ALWAYS caused issues for me when > about 15%.

pH was right where I wanted it at 5.6 during the Mash. Aimed high as this is the guidance I've seen for German Hefeweizens. Conversion was good as well inspite of the course grind but this is because I did a couple decoctions. I didn't want to rely on the built in RIMs in case I had the same issue as last weekend...

I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand why I can't get wheat to flow properly. At this point I'm blaming it on the flour but given this

That can't be the only factor at play.

I think I'll just keep trying and eventually, hopefully, I'll figure it out

Wheat malt is huskless, so tends to cause lautering difficulties. Husks help keep the grain bed porous for good wort flow. You probably need to add some rice husks to keep the grain bed free flowing.

Brew on

 

[ninkwood]

Wheat malt is huskless, so tends to cause lautering difficulties. Husks help keep the grain bed porous for good wort flow. You probably need to add some rice husks to keep the grain bed free flowing.

Brew on

I should have added that I had about 8oz/5% rice hulls in there as well! Like I said, I'm confused. I'm going to try to mill much slower next time around and use my bigger system that I'm more familiar with. As long as I use a bag and step mash with decoctions, the batch should be atleast salvageable!

 

[MaxStout]

I should have added that I had about 8oz/5% rice hulls in there as well! Like I said, I'm confused. I'm going to try to mill much slower next time around and use my bigger system that I'm more familiar with. As long as I use a bag and step mash with decoctions, the batch should be atleast salvageable!

Run it through the mill a second time, that might break it down some more.

 

[doug293cz]

Run it through the mill a second time, that might break it down some more.

Finer crush is not the answer to stuck recirc/lauter. It usually helps with low conversion efficiency, if you don't have flow issues.

Brew on

 

[MaxStout]

Finer crush is not the answer to stuck recirc/lauter. It usually helps with low conversion efficiency, if you don't have flow issues.

Brew on

My bad, I should've responded to this post, with the pic of coarse milled wheat.

But yes, your point is valid.

 

[ninkwood]

I think I just need to play with my mill some more. When I finally splurged and bought a mill, I was so excited to brew I just dove straight into a batch and haven't looked back.

I'm picking up some malt this weekend and I bought a few extra pounds specifically for testing the mill. I think that'll help alot!

 

[RM-MN]

The milling of the grain determines the mash efficiency. Finer crush means faster and more complete conversion. However, the finer the crush, the more difficult lautering becomes as the smaller particles will clog up the spaces between the husks. If you recirculate, this exacerbates the problem as the finer particles migrate with the flow of the wort to fill in the spaces.

Best practice is to use a bag and mill very fine with no recirculation. A very fine crush will get your conversion over with before the temperature drops significantly and the bag will give you the option of a good squeeze to force the wort out. JMHO

 

[ninkwood]

The milling of the grain determines the mash efficiency. Finer crush means faster and more complete conversion. However, the finer the crush, the more difficult lautering becomes as the smaller particles will clog up the spaces between the husks. If you recirculate, this exacerbates the problem as the finer particles migrate with the flow of the wort to fill in the spaces.

Best practice is to use a bag and mill very fine with no recirculation. A very fine crush will get your conversion over with before the temperature drops significantly and the bag will give you the option of a good squeeze to force the wort out. JMHO

The problem with this for me is temperature control. I already have an insulated mashtun that I preheat, but I brew outdoors and it's often near or even slightly below freezing. I initially started with BIAB (and I'm actually still using the bag for convenience/extra protection) but I would lose temperature too quickly for my liking and have since moved on to HERMS. I understand that this requires a courser crush, I think I just haven't found that sweet spot yet.

I have no problems with BIAB, but I personally prefer the method I'm using. It's not that I think it's better, but I get more enjoyment out of the process as it gives me better control over mash temps.