What's the difference between juice and cider?

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B29

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I'm new to the forum and to making cider. Done it "naturally" in the past by just letting the wild yeast do its thing but after reading through the cider threads I decided to try with some ale and wine yeasts. First batch is bottled and very dry and not much apple flavor. Three more batches are in secondary now. One of these was made from one of the concentrate kits, which I thought would give me some sort of standard for comparison purposes. The other two batches are pasteurized orchard products with no preservatives. One was labeled "apple cider" and the other "apple juice." Came from the same place. The cider was relatively free of sediment and fairly clear in the jug. The juice had plenty of sediment and was definitely not clear. However, after fermentation and racking this latter juice sample is clearing nicely. So, when you go to a farmer's market, Fresh Market, Whole Foods, etc. and they have both jugs of apple juice and apple cider from the same soource, what is the difference? Is it the blend of apples or are there processing differences?
 

dmtaylor

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First of all.... Americans are stupid.

To Americans, juice is the clear junk from the supermarket with preservatives, and cider is the cloudy stuff from either a supermarket or an orchard.

To everyone else on the planet, juice is the cloudy stuff from a supermarket or orchard, and cider is the alcoholic beverage that Americans call "hard cider". The term "hard cider" is redundant everywhere but in America.

Everyone else on the planet is right. Disregard the American terms. They're wrong.
 
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B29

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Thanks. Got hold of the producer and the only difference is filtering.
 

bernardsmith

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First of all.... Americans are stupid.

To Americans, juice is the clear junk from the supermarket with preservatives, and cider is the cloudy stuff from either a supermarket or an orchard.

To everyone else on the planet, juice is the cloudy stuff from a supermarket or orchard, and cider is the alcoholic beverage that Americans call "hard cider". The term "hard cider" is redundant everywhere but in America.

Everyone else on the planet is right. Disregard the American terms. They're wrong.
Not stupidity but prohibition may be at the root of this .. Oh wait.. Prohibition was stupid... so perhaps you are right after all.
 

podz

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Not stupidity but prohibition may be at the root of this .. Oh wait.. Prohibition was stupid... so perhaps you are right after all.
Prohibition was stupid, but the USA wasn't the first or last country that participated in it.

The root of prohibition in western countries was when the French decided to ban Absinthe because they thought the whole country's production would nosedive due to wanton drunkeness.
 

bernardsmith

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Banning absinthe and banning every wine, beer, cider, mead and then criminalizing anyone who made or bought it is not quite the same thing... is it? Real absinthe can be quite dangerous... my mead or my cider is ... not especially when people LEARN how to drink SOCIALLY with older folk and not with peers...
 

Frognostic

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Here in England "hard cider" is just called "cider".

The non-fermented juice is just called "apple juice".

And I think the origins of prohibition are in the temperance movements found throughout the Western world, including in America, in the 19th and early 20th centuries that were affiliated with tea-total Christian sects, philanthropists, proto-feminists and other do-gooder types.

Britain had its fair share of temperance crusaders, blaming alcohol for many of society's wrongs. "Onwards Christian Soldiers" was a temperance hymn and several dry-bars were opened selling things like dandelion and burdock to wean people off alcoholic beverages. They never quite managed to get alcohol banned in Britain like they did in America, although they would have liked to.
 

indolent

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First of all.... Americans are stupid.

To Americans, juice is the clear junk from the supermarket with preservatives, and cider is the cloudy stuff from either a supermarket or an orchard.

To everyone else on the planet, juice is the cloudy stuff from a supermarket or orchard, and cider is the alcoholic beverage that Americans call "hard cider". The term "hard cider" is redundant everywhere but in America.

Everyone else on the planet is right. Disregard the American terms. They're wrong.
As an American, I'm curious. What do you call the, "clear junk from the supermarket," or can you not even buy it?
 

podz

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Banning absinthe and banning every wine, beer, cider, mead and then criminalizing anyone who made or bought it is not quite the same thing... is it? Real absinthe can be quite dangerous... my mead or my cider is ... not especially when people LEARN how to drink SOCIALLY with older folk and not with peers...
QFE

Honestly?
 

podz

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To everyone else on the planet, juice is the cloudy stuff from a supermarket or orchard, and cider is the alcoholic beverage that Americans call "hard cider". The term "hard cider" is redundant everywhere but in America.
They don't really sell cloudy apple juice in most of Europe because nobody wants to drink it except people who don't know how to spell. You know, people who spell old as olde, ton as tonne, shop as shoppe, etc...

Anywhere you go in Europe, if you buy or order a cider then it means apple juice fermented to at least 4% ABV.
 

gratus fermentatio

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As an American, I'm curious. What do you call the, "clear junk from the supermarket," or can you not even buy it?
The clear stuff is juice. The brown cloudy stuff is "sweet cider," thanks to prohibition, the fermented stuff is "hard cider," but far as I know, the US is the only place this is so, everybody else just calls it juice & cider.

I'm of the opinion that if it ain't fermented, it ain't cider. But there is a significant difference between the clear, filtered juice & the brown, cloudy stuff, so I've become reasonably comfortable with the terms "sweet cider" & "hard cider." It works for me.
Regards, GF.
 

podz

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Difference between juice and cider?

The apple tree in my front yard.

 

Izzie1701

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I'm a Canadian and we call unfiltered juice cider and the clear stuff (usually from concentrate) juice. We also though call alcoholic cider, cider not hard cider so we are also confusing. Oh and we also call the hot spiced apple juice (no alcohol till you add rum) at Christmas cider. We apparently call everything cider.
 

Izzie1701

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They don't really sell cloudy apple juice in most of Europe because nobody wants to drink it except people who don't know how to spell. You know, people who spell old as olde, ton as tonne, shop as shoppe, etc...



Anywhere you go in Europe, if you buy or order a cider then it means apple juice fermented to at least 4% ABV.

Now you have confused us Canadians who are torn between the metric and imperial system. Tonne and Ton are two different units of measure here and should be spelled different or a lot of engineers will be in trouble.
 
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